• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Nikkor 600mm AFS II (1 Viewer)

Patience and getting close has to be the best way, but it might take an age to capture the shot you are after, most wildlife is not that obliging. I think it's a great kick when you can set up a close up shot and make it work.

Agreed, and thats what makes this hobby such a fascinating one. You can almost always get a better capture of the same subject. I filled a 2Gig card in an hour yesterday and kept 3 pics. Ridiculous, and I know even those 3 are not what I eventually want.

So, all the equipment in the world wont get you that pic if you not where you should be at the EXACT moment in time. I find great inspiration in (http://www.pbase.com/ronnie_14187/root) Ronnie Gauberts work, and he used a lowly D200 and extensively a 300mmf4 lens with converters, ext tubes etc etc. yes, he eventually got a long lens, point is he got GREAT pics with far lesser kit we have access to today.

Regards
 
Last edited:
Hi, in switching to Nikon from Canon I have now aquired this lens with a 1.4x II converter and Nikon D300s. Wil be used on a Gitzo tripod and black widow gimbal. Having used the Canon 600mm F4 I am familiar with the weight issues.
So are is there any advice users of this lens can give me technique or equipment wise or picture examples?

Regards,

Bob

Hi Bob, glad joined the dark side. Glad to see you're using a Gitzo and gimbal. I use a 5540LS with WimberleyII and it is so stable with my non VR 600f4/D3 combo. The D3's high ISO performance and frame rate make sharp pics and flight shots much easier. I agree that good long lens technique can make a huge difference to pics and this article makes sense if you use a 600
http://www.naturephotographers.net/ejp0801-1.html
Simple and cheap things such as rolling the finger on the shutter and keeping a hand on top of the lens really do help a lot. I keep the D3 on ISO1000 as a standard setting out of the bagand get high shutter speeds and no noise.
A Lowepro AW 600 rucksack is nice for holding the kit and a bag hide and Walkstool help.

Hope you have many good sessions with the kit.
 
Hi Bob, glad joined the dark side. Glad to see you're using a Gitzo and gimbal. I use a 5540LS with WimberleyII and it is so stable with my non VR 600f4/D3 combo. The D3's high ISO performance and frame rate make sharp pics and flight shots much easier. I agree that good long lens technique can make a huge difference to pics and this article makes sense if you use a 600
http://www.naturephotographers.net/ejp0801-1.html
Simple and cheap things such as rolling the finger on the shutter and keeping a hand on top of the lens really do help a lot. I keep the D3 on ISO1000 as a standard setting out of the bagand get high shutter speeds and no noise.
A Lowepro AW 600 rucksack is nice for holding the kit and a bag hide and Walkstool help.

Hope you have many good sessions with the kit.

Dennis, Can you enlighten us to the advantage of FX vs DX as you see it.
What sort of cropping can you achieve without loosing quality in the image ?
ISO 1000 doesn't give that much advantage over ISO 800 on my D300s.
Thanks Dave
 
I regard whatever body refers to as ‘Cropping’ as enlargement.

The golden rule for any enlargement is a maximum of 120% of the output resolution. Above this deterioration will be noticeable.

The lower the resolution the bigger the image.

This of course varies from device to device, so the degree of ‘enlargement size’ and quality will vary.

Other variation also then comes in to play such as the quality of the reproduction device, lenses, light, ink etc.

That’s why I take with a pinch of salt, these product comparisons.

Whatever camera combination you have, the output is fixed; unlike film you can’t change this. To have suitable enlargement factors, your subject must occupy as many pixels as possible.

The Achilles heel for all digital cameras is not enough light, enlarging the image highlights the shortcomings when shot in low or poor lighting conditions.

As for the 600mm, brilliant choice of lens. Which unfortunately in the New Year is going to get more expensive for us in the UK.
 
The issue of cropping is an interesting one I agree. I try to stick to a maximum of 33% but often have to go to 50% (Nikon Capture) .That's using a D300s. I read of people cropping to 100% with the pixel quality of a D3s which then compensates for the 1.5 crop factor of a DX body. A 24.5mp D3x is apparently capable of a lot more but there again it should be for the horrendous price, it's not meant to be that clever at higher ISO though.
Without a doubt, no matter what the equipment the shot will be best without cropping at all. Patience and getting close has to be the best way, but it might take an age to capture the shot you are after, most wildlife is not that obliging. I think it's a great kick when you can set up a close up shot and make it work.

I have a D3x and despite the fact I love it for the results I get, it does have a couple failings and one of them is poor ISO. I generally am reluctant to push the camera higher than ISO 400 as the results will be grainy. I guess this is just the trade off for a higher crop if you want to. As previously mentioned by someone above on this thread, I rarely crop further than 33% in Capture NX2. However, as long as the image is in sharp focus, 50 to 66% crop is no prblem at all. I have seen photo's taken by the D3s on unbelievable high ISO and I am quite envious but still wouldn't swap for the D3x. I happened to bump into Chris Packham the other day and we were swapping notes (as he also has D3x) and he also said the same about poor D3x ISO capability. Oh well, just have to wait for the presumed D4 !!!
 
I have a D3x and despite the fact I love it for the results I get, it does have a couple failings and one of them is poor ISO. I generally am reluctant to push the camera higher than ISO 400 as the results will be grainy.

How big are your prints? DxOMark shows a high ISO of 1992 for the D3x sensor, ranked 4th of all sensors tested and only behind the D3s, D700, and D3 in that order. You should be able to get some nice 19x13-sized prints even at ISO800!
 
Last edited:
I have a question too :

What would you choose if you were offered 600mm AF-S II non VR for the same price with 500mm AF-S VR II lens ?

The reason why I decided to get either 500mm or 600mm is because I would love to have action shots without sacrificing the reach. For longer reach, I'm happy with my Nikon Fieldscope EDG85 either with compact camera or FSA-L2 DSLR Photo Adapter which start from 500mm - 1750mm.

I would like to hike with either 600mm or 500mm in the forest ...

Any advice ?

Thanks !

Jason,
For walking around under canopy the 300/2.8 AFS plus 2x would be the easiest but it requires you to be too close for frame filling shots of birds smaller than pigeons. You would also need high iso capability of at least iso 6400 or maybe more. On my recent trip to Capertee Valley ( 4 hours west of Sydney ) we started shooting before sunrise as the Little Lorikeets and honeyeaters came to feed in the flowering Ironbarks around the homestead. I was up to iso 12,800 to start and rarely dropped below iso 3200 as it stayed cloudy with drizzle the whole time. 600 mm is not enough reach though for walking around on small birds ( warblers,flycatchers,flowerpeckers, sunbirds etc ) so I would go for the 500/4 AFS with the D3s or second hand D3. The crop factor of the D300s is more than outweighed by the fast AF of the D3/D3s and much higher iso capability. You can use the 1.4x or even the 1.7x tele with the 500/4 and in good light even the 2x ( although AF is slow).
If cost is a factor get the 500/4 now and upgrade the body later.
I wished I'd taken the 500/4 on my recent trip.
Neil.
 
Jason,
For walking around under canopy the 300/2.8 AFS plus 2x would be the easiest but it requires you to be too close for frame filling shots of birds smaller than pigeons. You would also need high iso capability of at least iso 6400 or maybe more. On my recent trip to Capertee Valley ( 4 hours west of Sydney ) we started shooting before sunrise as the Little Lorikeets and honeyeaters came to feed in the flowering Ironbarks around the homestead. I was up to iso 12,800 to start and rarely dropped below iso 3200 as it stayed cloudy with drizzle the whole time. 600 mm is not enough reach though for walking around on small birds ( warblers,flycatchers,flowerpeckers, sunbirds etc ) so I would go for the 500/4 AFS with the D3s or second hand D3. The crop factor of the D300s is more than outweighed by the fast AF of the D3/D3s and much higher iso capability. You can use the 1.4x or even the 1.7x tele with the 500/4 and in good light even the 2x ( although AF is slow).
If cost is a factor get the 500/4 now and upgrade the body later.
I wished I'd taken the 500/4 on my recent trip.
Neil.

Thanks Neil and I have decided on 500mm VR II :king:

By the way, what tripod are you using ? Is Gizto Systematic 3 Series is sufficient enough to hold the 500mm ? Or I need the Systematic 5 Series for this lens ?

Any comments on vibration issue between 3 and 5 series while using this lens ?
 
If you are walking around much I recommend you use a Gitzo GM5561T monopod and the Really Right Stuff MH-01 monopod head. If you don't need the compact-ness of the Gitzo, RRS also makes their own MC-34 monopod solution including the head. Finally, since you are already deep into the silly money for this kit might as well order the RRS replacement foot for the 500/F4 lens too.

I have the Gimbal head from Jobu and the lens would be use on the boat during tours, so I will skip monopod at the time being. Why need to buy the replacement foot for 500mm f4 ?
 
Oh, OK then. No need for the replacement foot if you are not buying the MH-01 monopod head.

You've been doing some big gear shopping this year! Guide business must be profitable and busy! BTW, I will have some free time soon. How is the birding season in Borneo between Dec-March?
 
Oh, OK then. No need for the replacement foot if you are not buying the MH-01 monopod head.

You've been doing some big gear shopping this year! Guide business must be profitable and busy! BTW, I will have some free time soon. How is the birding season in Borneo between Dec-March?

o_O hahaha the lens is for future bird photography tours with my company :king:

December until early February is generally wet and by middle February until October, that's a good time for birding in my place Rick. June - July is great because of the fruiting season, quite easy to see some of the rare endemics such as Whitehead's Broadbill and Fruithunter plus the Bornean Bristlehead ! My birding tour blog at http://birdersofborneo.blogspot.com is what I have to offered.

Let me know what do you think ;)
 
Last edited:
Thanks Neil and I have decided on 500mm VR II :king:

By the way, what tripod are you using ? Is Gizto Systematic 3 Series is sufficient enough to hold the 500mm ? Or I need the Systematic 5 Series for this lens ?

Any comments on vibration issue between 3 and 5 series while using this lens ?

Jason,
I don't have any experience with the Gitzos and I tend to use light weight tripods or monopods to reduce weight ( we have a 5 kms round trip to the hides here ). Check Naturescapes and see what the pros are using. Looking at the specs either would do but the 3 might be a bit stretched whereas the 5 would handle it easily. If you are putting a D3s and a heavy head on I would go with the 5. Shooting height will be important too as you will be shooting up into canopy.
Neil.
 
Jason,
I bought a Gitzo 5 series tripod on the theory that it could be used anywhere, but it is heavy (and pricey) and overkill except for the heaviest of the heavy lenses. I've since read Arthur Morris' comments about tripods. He uses the Gitzo 3 series for both 500mm and 800mm lenses (he's a Canon user). I'd go with the 3 series for the weight (and cost) savings if you are going with the 500 VR.

Arthur Morris website: http://www.birdsasart.com/

Jason,
I don't have any experience with the Gitzos and I tend to use light weight tripods or monopods to reduce weight ( we have a 5 kms round trip to the hides here ). Check Naturescapes and see what the pros are using. Looking at the specs either would do but the 3 might be a bit stretched whereas the 5 would handle it easily. If you are putting a D3s and a heavy head on I would go with the 5. Shooting height will be important too as you will be shooting up into canopy.
Neil.
 
Dennis, Can you enlighten us to the advantage of FX vs DX as you see it.
What sort of cropping can you achieve without loosing quality in the image ?
ISO 1000 doesn't give that much advantage over ISO 800 on my D300s.
Thanks Dave

Hi again Dave
In my own opinion the main disadvantage of the FX sensor in the D3 is the fact that my 600mm is 600mm. With the DX sensor it is effectively about 900mm, giving extra 'reach'. In bird photography 'reach' is important, as a 600mm will give you 20% more than a 500mm. Getting inside a bird's 'circle of fear' is an essential fieldcraft art and the more 'reach' a lens has the better.

The loss of the crop factor is more than made up for in the FX D3 in the superb high ISO performance. No noise artefacts at ISO 1600 at least and a superb 'bokeh'. This allows me to use higher shutter speeds for a given subject than my old D2xs which could only be used up to ISO 800 before exhibiting noise.
With my FX sensor on the D3, the apparent sharpness is hugely improved, the colour gamut seems wider and, as I specialise in flight shots, I can use a 600mm at 9 frames per second in RAW.
In Capure NX2 I can easily enlarge to 66%.
I do miss the 'extra' 300mm a DX sensor gives but the image quality is sooooo much better than my D2xs.
I sometimes add a 1.4x convertor but lose a stop in doing so but with no loss in quality.

I am still amazed at the quality Nikon seem to get out of their 12.3Mp sensors.
As an aside, the biggest improvement to image quality came from switching to a Gitzo 5540 tripod and Wimberley head. I oftens see folks hand-holding long lenses and feel they are not getting the best out of them even with VR or IS on.

Hope this helps a bit. There are many opinions out here on t'internet and there is always somenone out there who wishes to disagree. Do ask lots of questions, maybe someone will give you the exact answer you are looking for. The D300 produces superb results if you give it a chance and combined with a 600mm you will be able to get stunning results.
 
Last edited:
Luckily, I had enough funds left over to purchase the Nikon D3s also. So pretty soon this weekend, weather permitting I shall hopefully get out and try it in low light conditions. It will be used in "field conditions" and not a "controlled enviroment". There will be no scientific analysis, comparisons with other camera's etc, just my thoughts and some images. I did have a search of the net for custom settings for the D3s with regards to BIF/WILDLIFE and didn't find much. So in addition I will likely spend a few shoots working out which settings are best for me. I will try to leave feedback and results on here so others may benefit. I chose the D3s for its low light capabilities (photography in UK lots of low light levels) and full frame sensor which may come in handy at times. I also do try to get action shots and often find myself wanting faster speed in low light, hopefully increasing the D3s ISO will help me here. So I guess now I have a 600mm lens with the low light capability of the Nikon D3s and the reach of the d300s 1.5x DX sensor.
 
Would the new D7000 with its improved ISO capacity over the D300s be a good alternative to the D3 when used with say a 300 2.8 or a 500 f4 ??
 
Warning! This thread is more than 13 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top