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Collimation adjustments & flare questions on Habichts 8x30

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Old Friday 12th February 2016, 22:22   #1
lume
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Collimation adjustments & flare questions on Habichts 8x30

Hi,

I'd like to ask a couple of questions about the porro Habichts 8x30..

1. It has the most sophisticated coating and optical system.. but I can't understand why they don't fix the veiling glare by adding baffles. Anyone can explain why once and for all?? I spent the whole night reading about this in the net and forum archives but can't find the real reason why.

2. There seems to be no substitute. I want utmost contrast for birding. I'd order it from Europe and it would be shipped back and forth to different places with very possibility of it being tossed around.. has anyone ever encountered a 8x30 out of collimation? Or is the housing and prism so fixed that it can't be knocked out of collimation? How many G's before it can happen? Supposed I couldn't send it back for repair.. can I re collimate it myself?
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 09:42   #2
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I don't know if they have the most sophisticated optical system. The ocular design and its ease of view don't look very modern...

There is a US Swaro dealer on the forum that had (has?) a 8x30 in stock. His username is Proudpapa.
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 10:54   #3
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Image quality is just one (very important) factor in the total equation of viewing pleasure. If eye-relief and eyecup design don't match your face and eyes, you won't enjoy the bins no matter how good the image is optically. If they don't fit your hands of the focus is too stiff, slow or fast for your likings the bins will not satisfy.

There are bins that have a crisper image than my E2. But there is no bin that I can hold as steady or as effortlessly. So I get to see more detail most of the times and can enjoy the view longer than with other bins. Others will have similar experiences with other bins.

You have the great opportunity to try the E2 at your leisure. Imagewise there are few bins that are better. And as a whole package I find them a joy to use. Of course YMMV, but just give them a good try and see how they work for you, as a total package.

George

Last edited by 14Goudvink : Saturday 13th February 2016 at 11:02.
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 13:41   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lume View Post
I heard no roof alpha even made by Swarovski can beat the Habicht 8x30. The Habicht may be the ultimate in binocular image quality.. but I can't understand why they don't want to fix the infamous glare/flare problem.

Is there other porro can even come close to it? I don't want the glare. What substitute can one have that is not roof?

I read that all roofs even alpha can't show 3D on close subjects like trees or birds.
Zeiss HT, which uses Abbe-Konig prisms, has objective lenses that are offset from the eyepieces and thus give the 3D effect. And they are good with glare.

Lee
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 15:40   #5
Roadbike
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Quote:
Hi,

I'd like to ask a couple of questions about the porro Habichts 8x30..

1. It has the most sophisticated coating and optical system.. but I can't understand why they don't fix the veiling glare by adding baffles. Anyone can explain why once and for all?? I spent the whole night reading about this in the net and forum archives but can't find the real reason why.
The answer to your question can only come from Swarovski. However I suspect that Swarovski and most individual owners of the long produced 8x30 do not find veiling glare to be a problem. There may be one or two bloggers that have blown the issue out of proportion. How could that expensive bin have been so successful for so long with a problem of that severity?


Quote:
There seems to be no substitute. I want utmost contrast for birding.
If you believe the 8x30's to have a serious veiling glare problem then there are obvious substitutes. There are certainly other bins that should perform well. The Nikon 8x30 EII for example. Or Zeiss I believe has 2 8x32 models.

Quote:
I'd order it from Europe and it would be shipped back and forth to different places with very possibility of it being tossed around.. has anyone ever encountered a 8x30 out of collimation? Or is the housing and prism so fixed that it can't be knocked out of collimation? How many G's before it can happen? Supposed I couldn't send it back for repair.. can I re collimate it myself?
Any binocular can be knocked out of collimation from the shock of suddenly coming to a stop against something hard. I would not attempt a home alignment unless I had the tools and training. Most good sellers should pack your bins well.
However, you should look into the customs duty for importing binoculars. It could be considerable.

Last edited by Roadbike : Saturday 13th February 2016 at 15:50.
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 15:49   #6
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As far as glare, I find the 8x30 EII exceptionally good.
Looking into street lights very faint detail is seen with almost no ghosting at all.
I find that most Porros with short barrels are subject to ghosting. Why the EII isn't I don't know. Multicoating is only part of it. It must be very careful design.

The views of Earthshine on a several day old Moon was exceptionally good.
Earthshine tests really bring out image quality.

G shock tests are only partly reliable. It depends on how the impact hits.
Some equipment have G meters and if the value is exceeded, the equipment is rejected.
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 17:49   #7
proudpapa56
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Yes, we try to keep the Habicht 8x30 in stock but I may not be much help. As per written agreements with Swarovski, dealers aren't supposed to ship outside their home countries.
(It's a broken rule I know, but not from my end.)

Last edited by proudpapa56 : Saturday 13th February 2016 at 18:26.
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 18:30   #8
james holdsworth
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You have to try them yourself, instead of relying on [sometime] spurious internet comments.

One thing though - you want to use these for close-up work and I don't think the 8x30 is the way to go. My experience with these porros is the closer you get the more image divergence you get, due to the wide tube offset. That will require changing the IPD each time you want to close focus.
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Old Saturday 13th February 2016, 21:29   #9
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The 7x42 Habicht does not have the same glare issue as the 8x30. I have had both side by side. And the 10x40 does not have the issue to same degree. Glare did not really bother me in the 8x30; but the 7x42 suppresses it even more- it is very, very good in that regard.
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Old Sunday 14th February 2016, 00:07   #10
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IMO if you plan to use the binoculars frequently at such short distances you should abandon the idea of Porros with widely spaced objectives. The high parallax error in that type of binocular at short distance causes several bad effects. The worst I think is the impossibility, even if you change the IPD, of placing an object of interest in the center of both the right and left fields simultaneously.
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Old Sunday 14th February 2016, 03:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lume View Post
Yes I noticed I must exert either strong convergence (eyes coming together) or divergence (eyes getting apart).. I heard our divergence reserve is less than convergence reserve (measure in diopters).. meaning if you diverge, there will tend to be more eyestrain. I can't figure out if I'm diverging or converging my eyes when viewing closeup. Any idea?

But they say use porro for 3D effect for closeup. How "close" is it? How many meters to target object usually?
I have some experience with porro binoculars and the thoughts above
are very correct, as when you are very close to the subject 10 meters or
less, you will find it hard to adjust the IPD to obtain a proper view.

The porro may offer some 3D view out for a distance of 20-50 meters
and then beyond that it becomes the same as any binocular.

For your close-up viewing as you require, you should try your EII out
for a while, to see how you like it. Most any porro will be similar to that,
and they may not a good close up choice, but rather used at more typical birding distances.

I hope this helps.

Jerry
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Old Sunday 14th February 2016, 04:29   #12
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If you're trying for decent very close focus views, I seriously doubt you could beat the reverse-Porro Pentax Papillo II. If you could live with not-quite-as-close focus, yet still an excellent close-up view, from a compact roof bin, you could go with these and live with their limitations.

I suspect, though, that you're searching for a binocular which is perfect in every possible way.

Good luck with that! (And let us know when you've found it! As long as you don't find a new "perfect" bin every 6 months [see: Dennis]).

All actually-existing binoculars are going to require some sort of compromise. Your only option, unless you want to go - or be - insane, is to figure out the compromises you're prepared to live with, versus those you aren't.

Then buy 'em and look through 'em. At birds if that takes your fancy (it does mine) or whatever else you want to look at. You'll feel much happier looking at things you like, through binoculars you're at least OK with, than you will be trying to assess the last poofteenth of CA at a high-contrast edge, or whatever optical fandangle (eg. flare) you might think burns your b*m at any given time.

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Last edited by mfunnell : Sunday 14th February 2016 at 04:31.
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Old Sunday 14th February 2016, 09:36   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lume View Post
I read this review of the Zeiss Victory HT (you talking about it?)

http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...oryht8x42.html

It mentions:

"Threedimensionality
of the images is exceptional and the best in any roof prism bino I have seen, although of course not matching a porro prism. The objectives are 6mm wider spaced than the oculars, this is the widest stereo base of all 8x42s on review. The Zeiss SF features 4mm, the Nikon EDG 2mm, the Ultravid 0mm. "

7. Most pronounced threedimensionality, half way between a roof and a porro!"

I'm after the 3D view watching bird close up. So there is just nothing (No roofs of any kind) that can beat the Habicht 8x30?
Hi Lume

I am talking about my own experience with Zeiss Victory HT which, as you have also read elsewhere, has objectives spaced wider apart than the eyepieces and it is this that gives the 3D feel. No HT doesn't have as much of this effect as a porro, but on the other hand you will be more comfortable with HT when viewing at different close distances as the wide spacing of porros makes this increasing uncomfortable to the divergence of the two images from each optical tube.

Lee
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Old Sunday 14th February 2016, 14:53   #14
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Quote:
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I was testing this a while ago. If you didn't change the IPD (or make the bino objectives closer).. would your eyes need to diverge or converge to see the image? I noticed there is either converging or diverging in my eyes.. are you saying the roof prism would have less effect of this (since I want to use it between 4 to 6 meters)? But I can't get the optical paths. I mean if the objective is wider apart (as in porro).. why do your eyes need to diverge more (or is it converge more?) to see if you didn't make it closer?
For close-up observing you may want to consider a Pentax Papillo.
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