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swarovision 8x32s minus veiling glare?

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Old Friday 25th March 2016, 19:26   #1
hgalbraith
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swarovision 8x32s minus veiling glare?

I was perhaps the first person to report veiling glare in swaro 8x32 bins. I first came across it about three years ago on a trip to Colombia. I reported this on BF, after which a number of folks started to chime in about it. I had Swaro replace my original 8x32s with a replacement pair, in which VG was much less obvious. Seemed to me then that VG was something that might be fixable.

I have recently taken possession of another pair of SV 8x32 and have been using them intensely for the last two weeks under various weather conditions and in different habitats from forest to estuary to marine. While using them I have tried to push them into situations that elicited VG in my first pair of SVs (typically standing in bright low sunshine looking into much darker areas such as the forest floor). So far, no luck (?), despite trying hard I have been unable to reproduce VG. They behave like a superlative non-glarey pair of bins!

So, what is the deal? I have two potential theories: one is that Swaro has fixed the issue in more recent instruments. The other is that it has always been instrument-specific and it is just your luck if you buy a pair with or without VG. Whatever the facts, I am ecstatic about my current pair. Fantastic optics and no problems whatever.

Anyone else able to shed light (no pun intended) on this?
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Old Friday 25th March 2016, 20:05   #2
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There are some images of the source of veiling glare inside the 8x32 SV here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=308250

If the reflections near the exit pupil have been blocked by better baffling in recent production then the glare should be gone or nearly gone. If the reflections are still there the glare should be as it was.
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Old Friday 25th March 2016, 20:14   #3
hgalbraith
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SV veiling glare

Hi Henry, many thanks for drawing my attention to your photos. I have just taken a look at my SVs and cannot see the phenomena that you draw attention to as being "potentially damaging". So, maybe Swaro have altered their specs (or maybe it is just individual instrument variability).

I just realized that there may be a third explanation why I do not see VG in my new swaros - because my eyes have changed over the intervening years. However, I think this unlikely since my contact lens prescription has been stable over that period.
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Old Friday 25th March 2016, 20:26   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry link View Post
There are some images of the source of veiling glare inside the 8x32 SV here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=308250

If the reflections near the exit pupil have been blocked by better baffling in recent production then the glare should be gone or nearly gone. If the reflections are still there the glare should be as it was.
Hi Henry,

Some time ago you did an analysis of the 8x42 SLC-HD. It's not been a problem for me, but I'm curious what you found, if anything with regard to VG.

Ed
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Old Friday 25th March 2016, 21:34   #5
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Originally Posted by hgalbraith View Post
I was perhaps the first person to report veiling glare in swaro 8x32 bins. I first came across it about three years ago on a trip to Colombia. I reported this on BF, after which a number of folks started to chime in about it. I had Swaro replace my original 8x32s with a replacement pair, in which VG was much less obvious. Seemed to me then that VG was something that might be fixable.

I have recently taken possession of another pair of SV 8x32 and have been using them intensely for the last two weeks under various weather conditions and in different habitats from forest to estuary to marine. While using them I have tried to push them into situations that elicited VG in my first pair of SVs (typically standing in bright low sunshine looking into much darker areas such as the forest floor). So far, no luck (?), despite trying hard I have been unable to reproduce VG. They behave like a superlative non-glarey pair of bins!

So, what is the deal? I have two potential theories: one is that Swaro has fixed the issue in more recent instruments. The other is that it has always been instrument-specific and it is just your luck if you buy a pair with or without VG. Whatever the facts, I am ecstatic about my current pair. Fantastic optics and no problems whatever.

Anyone else able to shed light (no pun intended) on this?
"The Swarovision's are designed without a lot of baffling to avoid truncation of the exit pupil and to provide the ease of view they are famous for. Also, the lens curvature needed for the flat field results in light beams not flowing unhindered." That is what I read in Tobias's review of the Swarovision. So if you put more baffling to stop VG you lose in another area. I don't really see Swarovski making a big design change like that although it is possible.

Last edited by [email protected] : Friday 25th March 2016 at 22:09.
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Old Saturday 26th March 2016, 01:30   #6
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Question

The 8x32 SV has fantastic 'ease of view' - perhaps the best among any binocular given its scant 4mm exit pupil, good Fov and ER, relatively compact size, and light weight. My understanding of the optical design characteristics is that the 8x32 SV has had significant and deliberate attention paid to the "randpupille" http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=293766&page=2. This gives much more latitude, or margin of error in eye placement and alignment for a given exit pupil size, or 'eyeroamaboutability' as I like to call it
Swarovski head honchos themselves describe the 8x32 SV as a "very special little binocular".

It has been hypothesised that this may also possibly lead to less than best in class glare handling? Swarovski has been known before to make continuous unannounced updates and may well have changed something here. Hgalbraith, if your current unit has eliminated veiling glare issues, then it may have some redesigned or additional baffling added. Do you still see the same 'ease of view' and 'eyeroamaboutability' as your previous or other units? Is the 832 SV now the undisputed king among 32mm binos? ie. Do we now get to have our cake and eat it too?


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Old Saturday 26th March 2016, 01:54   #7
hgalbraith
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Swaros

I do not see much difference in ease of use between my old and new 8x32s. The only difference that I can see is more efficient glare control. I need to use them for another week or so but I suspect that I will eventually consider them to be the best birding bins I have owned (and that list includes all the alpha brands).
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Old Saturday 26th March 2016, 02:30   #8
Holger Merlitz
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Originally Posted by hgalbraith View Post
I do not see much difference in ease of use between my old and new 8x32s. The only difference that I can see is more efficient glare control. I need to use them for another week or so but I suspect that I will eventually consider them to be the best birding bins I have owned (and that list includes all the alpha brands).
Could you possibly take a photo of the exit pupil, and a view through the objectives into the tubes, so that we may try to identify differences between your sample and other, more ordinary samples with glare? Which is the serial no. of your 8x32?

Thanks, Holger
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Old Saturday 26th March 2016, 13:02   #9
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sv serial number

The serial number is F851544620. I will try to get photos in the next few days.
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Old Saturday 26th March 2016, 15:02   #10
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Originally Posted by Holger Merlitz View Post
Could you possibly take a photo of the exit pupil, and a view through the objectives into the tubes, so that we may try to identify differences between your sample and other, more ordinary samples with glare? Which is the serial no. of your 8x32?

Thanks, Holger
Holger,

I too have no VG issues (at least I'm not sensitive to it) with my recent EL 8x32 SV, SN F8511.....!

Attached are the "right barrel" ocular and two objective images (top and bottom views). Not sure if I captured what you're looking for, let me know if you need different angles or exposures.

Hope this helps,

Ted
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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 02:48   #11
Holger Merlitz
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Holger,

I too have no VG issues (at least I'm not sensitive to it) with my recent EL 8x32 SV, SN F8511.....!

Attached are the "right barrel" ocular and two objective images (top and bottom views). Not sure if I captured what you're looking for, let me know if you need different angles or exposures.

Hope this helps,

Ted
Thank you, Ted, the barrel pictures show the baffling of the binocular well. The exit pupil photo is not sufficiently sharp to determine whether or not any reflections are present. Compare with the photo which I have taken through this binocular 3 years ago, or with Henry's example. When pointed toward a bright light, there exist these reflections to the left of the exit pupil (or, when looking through the right barrel, to the right of the exit pupil).

Cheers,
Holger
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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 09:24   #12
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So, Holger, does it look to you that something may have changed?

H
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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 13:54   #13
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Using a flashlight I can see no difference between the objective end of Ted's #85 8x32 SV and my #82. They look identical.

I can't comment on the eyepiece end of things without a better picture, but I suspect there are no changes there either.

Without a direct outdoor comparison between old and new I wouldn't hazard a guess, but I suspect the conceptions/preconceptions of viewers might play a role in this.

Incidentally, at those times when glare actually becomes noticeable in the 8x32, shifting the eye up a little will cure most of it, assuming the sun, in general, is above the level of the binocular. In the meantime enjoy that lovely ease of view, which no other 32mm I've seen can equal. I've been using it almost exclusively these past few weeks. I love it.

Mark
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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 16:11   #14
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Mark, I also cannot see any difference between Ted's objective photo and my bins. However, I can see on my bins the reflections that Holger shows in his eyepiece photo. This is despite the fact that I am still unable to detect any VG in my bins (and I am a user who has certainly seen it in the past). You are right in that I should just be grateful and use these incredible bins without worrying about lurking flaws!
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Old Monday 28th March 2016, 02:47   #15
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Mark, I also cannot see any difference between Ted's objective photo and my bins. However, I can see on my bins the reflections that Holger shows in his eyepiece photo. This is despite the fact that I am still unable to detect any VG in my bins (and I am a user who has certainly seen it in the past). You are right in that I should just be grateful and use these incredible bins without worrying about lurking flaws!
In daylight, I had no problems with the Swaro. The eye-pupils then are small and do not touch the contaminated areas outside the exit pupil. After sunset, when the eye-pupils widen, the glare shows up. In particular during panning, everything turns suddenly foggy and the contrast diminishes for a second or so. Yes, it helps then to open up the hinge a little bit wider in order to avoid these areas.

I am currently unable to compare the pictures, because I do not have that binocular any more. But if any differences exist, I am confident that some of the readers here will point them out. I might then be ready to check the 8x32 once again, because apart of the glare problem I liked them quite a lot.

Cheers,
Holger
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Old Tuesday 29th March 2016, 16:41   #16
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So far, no luck (?), despite trying hard I have been unable to reproduce VG. They behave like a superlative non-glarey pair of bins!

So, what is the deal? I have two potential theories: one is that Swaro has fixed the issue in more recent instruments. The other is that it has always been instrument-specific and it is just your luck if you buy a pair with or without VG. Whatever the facts, I am ecstatic about my current pair. Fantastic optics and no problems whatever.

Anyone else able to shed light (no pun intended) on this?
I'd just like to add a possible third theory: time of the year and latitude.

It occured to me this winter, that this might actually be a reason, why people report so differently on glare in binoculars. This winter we had quite a few nice sunny days, and I noticed quite a lot of glare in my Ultravids, a bin that I normally consider being rather good in controling glare. So in winter and/or at higher latitudes, the sun is much lower and light comes in much more difficult for bins to control. So the guy who is not bothered at all by glare in his Swaro may sit in Texas or Colorado, while the guy complaining about glare in the same bin may do so from northern Germany or Norway.
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