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Habicht: 8x30 or 10x40?

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Old Monday 14th September 2015, 06:10   #76
Rathaus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
Careful there, if you give it some time in the field to get used to the eyecups and the narrow field of view you may find the 7x42 is pretty addictive ... I find it's optically quite clearly better than my late Nikon 8x32 SE with better transmission (actually visible in the field) and better contrast.

Hermann
This is so true. Give them time...They will give you moments of optical nirvana. If there is clearer glass out there let me know!
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Old Wednesday 23rd September 2015, 16:02   #77
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I have a newish 10x40 GA and it is far far superior to the new 8x30 re glare. But, The 8x30 is so good otherwise...if it needed a small compromise somewhere surely and a bit of glare at certain times of day is a teeny tiny price to pay for one of the best optical devices ever made.

However, imo, the 10x40 GA is a better bino. It's as if the sublime optical brilliance at 8x30 just gets to stand out more at 10x. These things are beyond the acuity of the normal discerning human eye.

Also, in my experience, this GA is probably the only binocular available today whose visible and tactile build quality is equal to or...at least on par with the Zeiss 15x60 BGAT I just received. (It came as a relief to handle the older Zeiss and to feel a bino made to last numerous lifetimes.

If there is a better built or more sturdy bino please let me know...I'll be the first to check it out.

Cheers,
Rathaus
Great to know...obtained a sweet deal (1\2 retail) and have an early 2015 10x40 W GA coming. If it's everything I've read about here on BF, should be a keeper along side the 10x50SV!

Ted
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Old Saturday 3rd October 2015, 15:49   #78
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Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
BTW, can someone perhaps check the "real" weight of the rubber-armoured version (without the rainguard and the strap)? The information on the Swarovski website is a bit outdated, I think. Hermann
Habicht 10x40 W GA is 26.2oz\743g, lighter than the Absam listing (jan. 2015 version)!
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Old Saturday 3rd October 2015, 21:16   #79
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Habicht 10x40 W GA is 26.2oz\743g, lighter than the Absam listing (jan. 2015 version)!
Did you get it? Tell us how it goes.

Rathaus
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Old Saturday 3rd October 2015, 21:46   #80
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If you tell me they blow the 10X50 away, I'll slam my head against the wall.


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Great to know...obtained a sweet deal (1\2 retail) and have an early 2015 10x40 W GA coming. If it's everything I've read about here on BF, should be a keeper along side the 10x50SV!

Ted
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Old Sunday 4th October 2015, 03:01   #81
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Thumbs up Have No Fear-10x50's are Here!

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If you tell me they blow the 10X50 away, I'll slam my head against the wall.
NO WAY, Nata, Nilch.!! They do have the sharpness, low light capability and clarity of the 10x50 and are no doubt, excellent glass. However, To My Eyes, the 10x50's superb resolution, extreme ease of FOV, their unbelievable relaxed as-if-you-are-there presentation and even better ergonomics wins Hands-Down...TD!

I need more time evaluating the Habicht 10x42 W GA, the Habicht 8x30 W (just did a CL trade to acquire), along with a Bunch of cheap porros obtained off e-bay. But, I'll give a subtle hint...The EL 10x50 SV's are the REAL DEAL!

Ted
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Old Sunday 4th October 2015, 07:35   #82
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That's a big relief, I thought I would have to sell mine before I even got to use them much at all.

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NO WAY, Nata, Nilch.!! They do have the sharpness, low light capability and clarity of the 10x50 and are no doubt, excellent glass. However, To My Eyes, the 10x50's superb resolution, extreme ease of FOV, their unbelievable relaxed as-if-you-are-there presentation and even better ergonomics wins Hands-Down...TD!

I need more time evaluating the Habicht 10x42 W GA, the Habicht 8x30 W (just did a CL trade to acquire), along with a Bunch of cheap porros obtained off e-bay. But, I'll give a subtle hint...The EL 10x50 SV's are the REAL DEAL!

Ted
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Old Sunday 4th October 2015, 18:15   #83
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Habicht 10x40 W GA is 26.2oz\743g, lighter than the Absam listing (jan. 2015 version)!
Yep. The 7x42 leatherette is at 618 gr. also quite a bit lighter than in the list.

Hermann
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Old Sunday 4th October 2015, 18:17   #84
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NO WAY, Nata, Nilch.!! They do have the sharpness, low light capability and clarity of the 10x50 and are no doubt, excellent glass. However, To My Eyes, the 10x50's superb resolution, extreme ease of FOV, their unbelievable relaxed as-if-you-are-there presentation and even better ergonomics wins Hands-Down...TD!
When it comes to weight the Habicht runs circles around the 10x50. That's one of the great advantages of the Habicht: Superb optical performance at a very low weight.

Hermann
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Old Tuesday 6th October 2015, 02:13   #85
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Originally Posted by Theo98 View Post
NO WAY, Nata, Nilch.!! They do have the sharpness, low light capability and clarity of the 10x50 and are no doubt, excellent glass. However, To My Eyes, the 10x50's superb resolution, extreme ease of FOV, their unbelievable relaxed as-if-you-are-there presentation and even better ergonomics wins Hands-Down...TD!

I need more time evaluating the Habicht 10x42 W GA, the Habicht 8x30 W (just did a CL trade to acquire), along with a Bunch of cheap porros obtained off e-bay. But, I'll give a subtle hint...The EL 10x50 SV's are the REAL DEAL!

Ted
Everyone knows the sv10x50 is phenomenal...but look at the areas that the far smaller tougher and cheaper habichts equal or exceed the monstrous 10x50!
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Old Tuesday 6th October 2015, 03:34   #86
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Tougher ?

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Everyone knows the sv10x50 is phenomenal...but look at the areas that the far smaller tougher and cheaper habichts equal or exceed the monstrous 10x50!
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Old Tuesday 6th October 2015, 05:46   #87
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Tougher ?
Absolutely undoubtedly yes. It's a serious mil spec and hunting instrument.

It was never designed to be a friendly birding device. Hence the many tender birding fingers on BF which can't turn its focuser. Also Longer warranty. I've spoken directly to a Swarovski technician who said it is, by far, the toughest bino that Swarovski, or anyone make, in his opinion. For one thing, according to him, It takes far more g force impact on various angles To take it out of collimation than any Swarovski roof. It could be the small prisms? Also, that GA coating is nothing like the coating of any alpha roof. It is very thick and tough. Putting this bin into a case seems like a joke when you do it. Its GA coating is its case.

It is a fact that All current swarovski used in military in many various countries are based very closely or identically on this model. I have a new current Swedish military model...it is identical. Just IF and reticle, but some military have CF, and/or laser filter. All this could be why 1950s and earlier Habichts nearly always maintain perfect collimation, no matter how beaten the exterior. Also, nearly always clean inside.

Ask or PM PHA about them. He's been hunting and trekking in the Andean wilderness for decades with them. From what I've read he puts his bins through far more than anybody else on here.

Rathaus

Ps: just to complicate things and to ensure congruence, the same Swarovski technician stated that his personal favourite binocular was the SV10x50

Last edited by Rathaus : Tuesday 6th October 2015 at 06:39.
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Old Tuesday 6th October 2015, 11:55   #88
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Hello SuperDuty,

Agree, completely, with Rathaus.

PHA
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Old Wednesday 7th October 2015, 03:08   #89
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The Habicht is a binocular that I would like to try, but eye relief would be a problem.
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Old Wednesday 7th October 2015, 03:12   #90
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Originally Posted by Rathaus View Post
Absolutely undoubtedly yes. It's a serious mil spec and hunting instrument.

It was never designed to be a friendly birding device. Hence the many tender birding fingers on BF which can't turn its focuser. Also Longer warranty. I've spoken directly to a Swarovski technician who said it is, by far, the toughest bino that Swarovski, or anyone make, in his opinion. For one thing, according to him, It takes far more g force impact on various angles To take it out of collimation than any Swarovski roof. It could be the small prisms? Also, that GA coating is nothing like the coating of any alpha roof. It is very thick and tough. Putting this bin into a case seems like a joke when you do it. Its GA coating is its case.

It is a fact that All current swarovski used in military in many various countries are based very closely or identically on this model. I have a new current Swedish military model...it is identical. Just IF and reticle, but some military have CF, and/or laser filter. All this could be why 1950s and earlier Habichts nearly always maintain perfect collimation, no matter how beaten the exterior. Also, nearly always clean inside.

Ask or PM PHA about them. He's been hunting and trekking in the Andean wilderness for decades with them. From what I've read he puts his bins through far more than anybody else on here.

Rathaus

Ps: just to complicate things and to ensure congruence, the same Swarovski technician stated that his personal favourite binocular was the SV10x50
Tell us more about the GA lens coating you mention?
I am not familiar with it.

Jerry
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Old Wednesday 7th October 2015, 14:01   #91
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Tell us more about the GA lens coating you mention?
I am not familiar with it.

Jerry
Sorry mate, I was referring to the thick GA coating itself....the protective rubber coating of the binocular. It's thick and chunky. Doesn't it stand for Gummi Armor or gummy bear or something in German?

As for the lense coatings, well, I have no idea what they are but they're bloody good. The light transmission is right up there at the top of any bino ever made. Perhaps, from memory, only the fujinon 7x50 equals or slightly betters it. So, apart from being a porro, they're obviously doing something right with the lens coatings. Without going into detail, The 10x has very few optical weaknesses from what I can see. The occasional glare of the 8x is completely absent. I will say it's a ruthlessly revealing glass. The contrast and on axis clarity are monstrous. In quick direct comparison, The excellent Nikon Ell looks washed out...lacking in contrast and clarity.

Last week i was viewing a funnel webbed spider's lair in the hole of a tree trunk. I was about thirty yards away(close enough). Half way between myself and the tree was a post with a single spiders web thread swaying in the breeze. I had four binoculars with me -

The 8x30 Habicht
The 8x30 Habicht Swedish military with reticle
The 8x30 Nikon Ell
The 7x42 zeiss bgatp

The zeiss had the easiest and most relaxing view of the spiders lair.
The Nikon was also easy. Slightly dull but sharp and good. And Easy quick eye placement.

Both Habichts however required eyes to be properly placed, then kept locked in place. Easy once practiced. Then the differences became clear. Firstly, while focused on the funnel webb nest tree, I suddenly spotted the single thread of spiders web blowing horizontally (15 yards away, half way to the tree), invisible in the other bins. They just couldn't pick it up, even when focusing directly on it. It was just too fine for them. Not enough contrast.

Using both the little Habichts (optically identical) it stood out..really stood out. I realised this was optical superiority plain and simple.
Then I focused on the beautiful thin peeling bark of this big gum tree with all binos...arms rested on car window sill. It looked so sharp and pleasant in the zeiss and Nikon. I was totally satisfied. but then I got out the Habichts, and I could further resolve which way the tiny pieces of shedding bark were actually twisting due to the tiny shadows cast by them. Unbelievable.

This acuity stuff can get a bit silly...fortunately I've still got good eyes, but maybe in ten years I won't be able to resolve all of these differences, and hopefully I won't care obout or know what I'm missing

Having said all that, if I had to sit there all day waiting for that spider to appear, I'd choose the zeiss because of its lovely relaxed and forgiving view. It lets your eyeballs and head loll about just a bit and still see everything looking lovely and lush....and in isolation, not wanting for any more detail whatsoever.

Just some recent observations,
Rathaus
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Old Wednesday 7th October 2015, 14:35   #92
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I've seen that type of gossamer threading from my deck while looking into a canopy of trees about 70 feet away with my Nikon 8 x 32 LX L. A caterpillar was hanging or dangling in mid-air from a branch on a maple tree by a thread and it was working its way up it spinning a cocoon it looked like to me.

Bob
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Old Wednesday 7th October 2015, 21:01   #93
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I've seen that type of gossamer threading from my deck while looking into a canopy of trees about 70 feet away with my Nikon 8 x 32 LX L. A caterpillar was hanging or dangling in mid-air from a branch on a maple tree by a thread and it was working its way up it spinning a cocoon it looked like to me.

Bob
I should have added...after time, when this thin spiders thread came out of the shadows and was sunlit, it was easily visible in all binos, but when it was heavily shaded(most of the viewing) it remained blissfully invisible to the Nikon and zeiss. It was kind of spooky the way the Habicht could see it and the others not.
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Old Tuesday 20th October 2015, 18:46   #94
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I'm especially interested in glare resistance. From what I've seen the 8x30 has a fair amount of veiling glare...What's the 10x40 like, compared to the 8x30 (and the 7x42)? Hermann
Hermann,

Not sure about the 7x42 (don't own), but as far as veiling glare under varying lighting conditions, I see very little difference between the Habicht 8x30 and 10x40's. Actually, I'm not very sensitive to glare and flaring issues in any of my optics I use (porros or roofs), so certainly my opinion doesn't mean much. But I do find the small incremental increase in eye relief \ exit pupil size and larger eye cups of the 10x40 W GA's afford me a quicker and much more comfortable FOV!

Ted
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Old Tuesday 20th October 2015, 21:59   #95
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Sorry mate, I was referring to the thick GA coating itself....the protective rubber coating of the binocular. It's thick and chunky. Doesn't it stand for Gummi Armor or gummy bear or something in German?
Indeed. And while we are at it:

B = Brilletraegergeignet = usable with spectacles
GA = Gummi Armiert = rubber armoured
T = T Belag = T single coating
T* = T* Belag = T* multi coating
P = Phasenbelag = phase coated (sometimes incorrectly printed as P* or even left out completely on very new bins produced after Zeiss stopped making bins w/o phase coating)

Joachim
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Old Tuesday 20th October 2015, 22:50   #96
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Hello Hermann,

About the control of glare, both internal reflections and veiling glare, the Habicht W GA 10x40 I have, of the latest version, is at least as good as my Zeiss HT 10x42.

Best

PHA
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Old Wednesday 21st October 2015, 10:00   #97
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Hermann,

Not sure about the 7x42 (don't own), but as far as veiling glare under varying lighting conditions, I see very little difference between the Habicht 8x30 and 10x40's. Actually, I'm not very sensitive to glare and flaring issues in any of my optics I use (porros or roofs), so certainly my opinion doesn't mean much. But I do find the small incremental increase in eye relief \ exit pupil size and larger eye cups of the 10x40 W GA's afford me a quicker and much more comfortable FOV!

Ted
I can confirm, with all respect, that what you say about your insensitivity to glare (a blessing perhaps) is responsible for your comments. The 10x40 is massively, hugely, superior to the 8x30, and most bins, re glare. It's chalk and cheese.

Warm regards
Rathaus
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Old Wednesday 21st October 2015, 14:20   #98
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Talking

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I can confirm, with all respect, that what you say about your insensitivity to glare (a blessing perhaps) is responsible for your comments. The 10x40 is massively, hugely, superior to the 8x30, and most bins, re glare. It's chalk and cheese.

Warm regards
Rathaus
I totally agree! My spouse also likes the Habicht 10x40 W GA much more than the 8x30 W...states their FOV is easier and clearer to obtain. In fact, she thinks they are the closes bino view to the 10x50 SV she's ever glassed with and for her, notices the immediate weight advantage! Funny for me, I can still hold the 10x50 extra 250g's steadier and longer than the Habicht!?

Ted
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Old Monday 15th February 2016, 16:13   #99
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Talking 10x40 W GA !

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Sancho. You said above you got rid of the 8x30 Habicht because you couldn't stand the veiling glare. Have you tested the 10x40 Habicht.. how does it perform compare to it? And what bino do you use now? How is the glare of the new one?
Lume,

If you read all of pg 4 in this thread, you'll see I much prefer the 10x40 W GA to the 8x30W! Besides the additional resolution, I found optically the larger, softer and deeper rubber eye cups of the 10x40 GA much more comfortable to my eye sockets (don't wear eye glasses and eye lashes don't touch this glass)! Ergonomically, the armored body is built like a tank, has a wonderful tactile feel to it and is easier to grip and stabilize the image over the 8x30's!

My used purchased 2015 10x40 W GA sale initiated in Germany, then to New York, then down to the deep south (last owner used very questionable packing techniques). There were No shipping damages...perfect colimation and all of this virtually in just the Swaro Absam "soft case"!

But alas, the EL 10x50 SV "Roof Prism" bino to me, offers such a superior view for birding, wildlife and scenic glassing that I will keep these 10x40's for what they are...a fantastically built porro that exudes quality, deep bino history and provides very nice 3D imagery (but then for me, so does the 10x50 SV)!

Good Luck,

Ted
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Old Monday 15th February 2016, 17:54   #100
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As I've posted before, I bought the 10x40 Habicht (known as the "Diana" model, for no very obvious reason) in 1990. I used them as sole birding bins until last year, when they went to a relative who's very pleased. They are very good bins, and coatings will have improved, so they should be excellent now. The one problem was that close focus (claimed as 4 metres) was more like 5 metres for me (vision was normal at the time, no eyeglasses worn).

I was looking for a reported Yellow-browed Warbler on one occasion. Someone pointed to a thicket and I squeezed through the dense vegetation. Up popped a bird, but very briefly. I got the bins on it well enough to make out a strong super and a couple of wing-bars before it disappeared, but it was too close, and the image was frustratingly blurred. It remains my only one, and I'm counting it, but the occasion was spoiled a bit.

Personally I now want bins to focus down to about 2 metres. This may not be a consideration for everyone, of course.
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