Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Better Image In the SV

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Sunday 28th February 2016, 03:26   #26
SuperDuty
Registered User
 
SuperDuty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 888
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jremmons View Post
By different models are you referring to magnification and size of objective lens?
SuperDuty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 28th February 2016, 05:34   #27
Alexis Powell
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LY+DG counties, Kansas, USA
Posts: 3,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
I would like to poll everyone on how they rate the different SV models for CA control in comparison to the best you've seen, mention the model your rating if you will please.
The best I've seen are some mid and full porros and some pocket roof models.

Among mid to full sized roofs, I've had much opportunity to compare the 8.5x42 SV to the Zeiss 8x32 FL. The CA of the 8.5x42 SV is more (esp. off-axis and with imperfect pupil alignment) than that of the Zeiss 8x32 EL. Even with imperfect pupil alignment, the Zeiss 8x32 FL has very low CA, but in that case it has strong astigmatism over much of the field. I prefer the view through the SV. I tolerate CA better than I do lack of resolution due to astigmatism.

--AP
Alexis Powell is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 28th February 2016, 08:29   #28
SuperDuty
Registered User
 
SuperDuty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 888
Is the difference in CA control between the 8.5X42 SV and 8X32 EL large ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis Powell View Post
The best I've seen are some mid and full porros and some pocket roof models.

Among mid to full sized roofs, I've had much opportunity to compare the 8.5x42 SV to the Zeiss 8x32 FL. The CA of the 8.5x42 SV is more (esp. off-axis and with imperfect pupil alignment) than that of the Zeiss 8x32 EL. Even with imperfect pupil alignment, the Zeiss 8x32 FL has very low CA, but in that case it has strong astigmatism over much of the field. I prefer the view through the SV. I tolerate CA better than I do lack of resolution due to astigmatism.

--AP
SuperDuty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 28th February 2016, 10:54   #29
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 2,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
I would like to poll everyone on how they rate the different SV models for CA control in comparison to the best you've seen, mention the model your rating if you will please.
Don't see much difference in CA levels between my 7x42 FL and 8.5x42 SV.
Both are very good. Correct IPD and eye alignment are important though, for optimal results.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 28th February 2016, 11:35   #30
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
AMD, rolling ball, queasy panning, poor 3D. There are no free lunches in optics, just trade-offs.

Sharp edges would be great if there wasn't a host of trade-offs to consider, many of which would be worse than the soft edges you are trying to correct. I have yet to use a flat-field design that appeared as sharp or contrasty as my reference standard binoculars. All IMO.
After 8 1/2 years combined use of two SV's I have experienced none of those trade-offs. I guess it's a lifetime of free lunches for me.

I use 3 binos with flat fields (and another that's darn close--8x25 CL) and one scope with a true flat field. I'm not going back. Use flat fields for a while and, as Pileatus mentions, you'll find soft edges distracting. I know I do.

But take your pick, find what works, rest easy.

As for CA, the SV's are about as low as any. Certainly my 8x32 FL and 8x32 SV are not appreciably different. Other qualities, however, mean that the FL sees little if any use.

Mark
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 28th February 2016, 13:54   #31
jremmons
Wildlife Biologist

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,213
I personally find the difference in CA exceptionally noticeable, but of course everyone's eyes are different. I've directly compared the 7x42 FL, 8x32 FL, 8.5x42 SV, 8x32 SV, and 10x42 SV at various points in time. Only the Kowa Genesis compares favorably to the FL in terms of CA suppression. I easily notice CA, though. The SV bested the Ultravid HD in this regard, though.

Justin
jremmons is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th February 2016, 04:09   #32
Alexis Powell
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LY+DG counties, Kansas, USA
Posts: 3,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
Is the difference in CA control between the 8.5X42 SV and 8X32 EL large ?
HUGE. The old 8x32 EL has a lot of CA (much more than the old 8.5x42 EL), whereas the 8.5x42 Swarovison has low CA compared to non-ED roofs (including the old 8.5x42 EL).

--AP

Last edited by Alexis Powell : Monday 29th February 2016 at 04:11.
Alexis Powell is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th February 2016, 05:48   #33
SuperDuty
Registered User
 
SuperDuty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 888
I just realized that I asked about the 8X32 EL instead of the 8X32 FL. My question should have been, Is the difference in CA control between the 8.5X42 SV and 8X32 FL large ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
Is the difference in CA control between the 8.5X42 SV and 8X32 EL large ?
SuperDuty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th February 2016, 17:26   #34
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
I just realized that I asked about the 8X32 EL instead of the 8X32 FL. My question should have been, Is the difference in CA control between the 8.5X42 SV and 8X32 FL large ?
I can see no significant difference between them. I just checked using bare branches against a bright cloudy sky. If the FL is better off axis (and I don't think it is) you'd have a hard time telling because the CA will hide in the blurred edges.

The main thing that stuck out in this comparison, under these conditions, and aside from the edges, was the color. The FL gave the bright white/gray sky a slightly tobacco-stained look. I remember seeing this years ago, and I was surprised because I always thought the FL had great, neutral color. But there it is, once again. At the time I called it just a bit "dingy," in comparison with the SV's. I have no idea if this is the same "green" color cast that some see in the SF.

The Sightron (I checked that too) was a bit beyond the Zeiss in the direction of yellow. Many have commented on that. It was a bit behind in the CA department, too, but really not bad at all. Many have sad that, too. It's a great, little all-rounder.

Hope this helps, but ultimately it'll be up to your eyes to make the call.

Mark
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th February 2016, 17:44   #35
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kammerdiner View Post

The FL gave the bright white/gray sky a slightly tobacco-stained look. I remember seeing this years ago,

Mark
For Pete's sake Mark will you stop smoking those huge Cuban cigars when you are comparing binoculars?

And it would help to clean the FLs once in a while. You keep saying how they just sit in a drawer unused for months/years so they probably want sand-blasting and rotary buffing by now.

Lee
Troubador is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th February 2016, 18:01   #36
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
For Pete's sake Mark will you stop smoking those huge Cuban cigars when you are comparing binoculars?

And it would help to clean the FLs once in a while. You keep saying how they just sit in a drawer unused for months/years so they probably want sand-blasting and rotary buffing by now.

Lee
Actually, the FL's are probably the cleanest of the bunch right now. The ones that get used a lot are a little dusty.

Getting the FL out for comparison is interesting. They really are a cool, little bulldog of a bino.

Hmm, time for walkies.

Mark
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 29th February 2016, 18:51   #37
Gijs van Ginkel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utrecht
Posts: 1,615
Mark, post 34,
The Zeiss Victory FL 8x32 does not have a perfect color reproduction, the reason is that the transmission spectrum shows a big bump in the wavelength region 550-625 nm which levels of quickly towards the blue and red spectral region, so you can go on smoking Cuban cigars when using the FL, since it will not affect its performance.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 1st March 2016, 00:09   #38
SuperDuty
Registered User
 
SuperDuty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 888
Wow, thanks for taking the time to check that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kammerdiner View Post
I can see no significant difference between them. I just checked using bare branches against a bright cloudy sky. If the FL is better off axis (and I don't think it is) you'd have a hard time telling because the CA will hide in the blurred edges.

The main thing that stuck out in this comparison, under these conditions, and aside from the edges, was the color. The FL gave the bright white/gray sky a slightly tobacco-stained look. I remember seeing this years ago, and I was surprised because I always thought the FL had great, neutral color. But there it is, once again. At the time I called it just a bit "dingy," in comparison with the SV's. I have no idea if this is the same "green" color cast that some see in the SF.

The Sightron (I checked that too) was a bit beyond the Zeiss in the direction of yellow. Many have commented on that. It was a bit behind in the CA department, too, but really not bad at all. Many have sad that, too. It's a great, little all-rounder.

Hope this helps, but ultimately it'll be up to your eyes to make the call.

Mark

Last edited by SuperDuty : Tuesday 1st March 2016 at 06:34.
SuperDuty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 2nd March 2016, 00:53   #39
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Mark, post 34,
The Zeiss Victory FL 8x32 does not have a perfect color reproduction, the reason is that the transmission spectrum shows a big bump in the wavelength region 550-625 nm which levels of quickly towards the blue and red spectral region, so you can go on smoking Cuban cigars when using the FL, since it will not affect its performance.
Gijs van Ginkel
Thanks, Gijs, that makes sense. Add some extra yellow-green to a white-gray sky and that would explain what I see. The Allbinos spectrograph of the 8x32 FL confirms it. I wouldn't presume to comment without direct comparison with an SV, but it's there.

Mark
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 2nd March 2016, 01:06   #40
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
Wow, thanks for taking the time to check that out.
You're welcome SD. If you like the CA in the 8.5 SV, try the 8x32 SV. I can't imagine you'd see much difference, but again it's your eyes that make the call.

8x32 FL? It's seen its better days. I'd wait to see the 8x32 SF.

Mark
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 3rd March 2016, 12:42   #41
cgr1971
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
SLC is exactly that.
Optically yes, ergonomically no.
cgr1971 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 3rd March 2016, 13:37   #42
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Mark, post 34,
The Zeiss Victory FL 8x32 does not have a perfect color reproduction, the reason is that the transmission spectrum shows a big bump in the wavelength region 550-625 nm which levels of quickly towards the blue and red spectral region, so you can go on smoking Cuban cigars when using the FL, since it will not affect its performance.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs
You may be correct that cigar smoking will not affect the FL but it probably has Mark coughing and choking with watery eyes so much he can't tell whether he is looking through binoculars or up a drainpipe

Lee
Just joshing folks
Troubador is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 4th March 2016, 04:44   #43
Alexis Powell
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LY+DG counties, Kansas, USA
Posts: 3,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDuty View Post
I just realized that I asked about the 8X32 EL instead of the 8X32 FL. My question should have been, Is the difference in CA control between the 8.5X42 SV and 8X32 FL large ?
Usually, I agree with Mark (Kammerdiner), but when it comes to CA in the 8.5x42 SV versus 8x32 FL, I do not find the difference subtle, especially off-axis or with imperfect pupil centering. The FL has considerably less CA. Both are quite good in the center, and the SV is good overall, but the FL is exceptional among roofs of this size. I do agree that the FL, which I've always thought of as bright, color neutral, and contrasty, does not have the contrast and vibrant yet neutral color of the SV.

--AP
Alexis Powell is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 19:44   #44
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis Powell View Post
Usually, I agree with Mark (Kammerdiner), but when it comes to CA in the 8.5x42 SV versus 8x32 FL, I do not find the difference subtle, especially off-axis or with imperfect pupil centering. The FL has considerably less CA. Both are quite good in the center, and the SV is good overall, but the FL is exceptional among roofs of this size. I do agree that the FL, which I've always thought of as bright, color neutral, and contrasty, does not have the contrast and vibrant yet neutral color of the SV.

--AP
Fair enough, AP.

I once rejected a pair of polycarbonate eyeglasses after two weeks of torturous CA, so I always assumed I was sensitive to it. Maybe I'm not so much??

As for off-axis and imperfect pupil centering, I can't think of another bino as touchy as the FL, except maybe some compacts.

The 8x32 SV is just a big breath of fresh air in comparison.

And Lee, I smoked maybe 3 cigars in my life. Maybe 3 pipes. Cigarettes are another matter. There was this girl once and...well, she smoked.

As for Cannibis I shall remain silent. I went to grad school after all.
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 20:01   #45
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kammerdiner View Post

There was this girl once
Only once Mark??

Lee
Troubador is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 20:12   #46
jremmons
Wildlife Biologist

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,213
I agree with AP. The lack of CA in the FL is exactly why I chose it over the SV. The Kowa is the only true rival I've found to the FL.
jremmons is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Selecting only part of an image and saving as a new image brains Photoshop, Paintshop and Printing 6 Sunday 4th April 2010 22:42
Reducing image size & retaining image quality?? davem Photoshop, Paintshop and Printing 1 Thursday 16th April 2009 10:36
Same image but which is best! The Raptor Photo Critique 10 Monday 30th March 2009 20:45
Which is the better image AJDH Photo Critique 5 Friday 21st December 2007 17:47
Digiscoped image vs DSLR image Neil Digiscoping cameras 12 Saturday 13th January 2007 09:33

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.29981589 seconds with 33 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 18:12.