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Slightly Interesting Chiffchaff (1 Viewer)

Jane Turner

Jane Turner

Well-known member
I've been testing out the suggested primary spacing method to help ID possible Iberian Chiffchaffs - basically can you see it in the field with a scope

https://britishbirds.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Gil-005.jpg


So imagine my surprise when I looked at this slightly odd looking Chiffchaff and found 3-4 to be equal to 4-5.

It did have slighly pale legs and some yellow in the face and the under tcs and had a contrasty pale green rump.... and I do have a good sound recording of its call which is definitely in the colybitta camp if a little deep sounding - my immediate reaction was to hang a recorder out of the window. Anyways I thought it was interesting, and the impression of the spacing was detectable in the field before it was confirmed in photos.

Call here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/znuu0piyzfu7jfq/collybita 17th April 2017.wav?dl=0
 

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It has the hooked tip to the upper mandible that is currently being mooted as a pro Iberian feature by some. As you say though, the call is collybita through and through.
 
There is a hybrid zone isn't there? I wonder if its a bit like tristis - where plumage looks better for tristis and call better for abientinus in the hybrid zone
 
Jane Turner said:
I've been testing out the suggested primary spacing method to help ID possible Iberian Chiffchaffs - basically can you see it in the field with a scope

https://britishbirds.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Gil-005.jpg


So imagine my surprise when I looked at this slightly odd looking Chiffchaff and found 3-4 to be equal to 4-5.

It did have slighly pale legs and some yellow in the face and the under tcs and had a contrasty pale green rump.... and I do have a good sound recording of its call which is definitely in the colybitta camp if a little deep sounding - my immediate reaction was to hang a recorder out of the window. Anyways I thought it was interesting, and the impression of the spacing was detectable in the field before it was confirmed in photos.

Call here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/znuu0piyzfu7jfq/collybita 17th April 2017.wav?dl=0
Click to expand...
Interesting, I'm currently looking at one of these which arrived in my garden in Serbia last month. Your bird also has the yellow in the supercillium which should run fron just behind the eye to the bill. I've never seen a collybita that looks like your bird. Your bird seems to lack any brown in the upper parts which also favours Iberian.
 
Geoff WORCS said:
I really do worry when people start messing with the original. A slippery slope for sure
Click to expand...
Absolutely not - and this issue has been disposed of many times in these columns. In digital photography there is no such thing as a meaningful 'original': the camera's own software has already 'messed with' the image to an unpredictable and unknown degree even before it reaches the internal storage - and 'messing with' the same image subsequently can legitimately be seen as correcting the camera's inevitable errors. Removing a colour cast (as done by Mr Small) - if done thoughtfully - is one such legitimate (and, for ID purposes, often highly useful) intervention.
 
Butty said:
...In digital photography...
Click to expand...
actually in any form of reproduction
Butty said:
there is no such thing as a meaningful 'original': the camera's own software has already 'messed with' the image
Click to expand...
also true of other media (film etc; e.g. compare Kodachrome and Ektachrome, Agfa...)
Butty said:
to an unpredictable and unknown degree
Click to expand...
Sometimes this is known; often sensor sensitivities are published although processing engines often not (proprietary).

Anyway, incident light nearly always has a much bigger impact and this varies tremendously, depending on such as time of day, reflected light from foliage etc

So yes there is often a good case for playing with colour balance if the aim is id
 
...and guys - we haven't even discussed how we are all viewing these images.

Laptop, ipad, mobile phone, desktop etc displays are all open to various settings that the user isn't always aware of.

Mobile phones usually being set a very high levels of 'vibrancy' and can use default 'vivid' settings.

Then we come to the printing of these images - has the relevant monitor/screen been optimised for printing?

And both the paper and the inks used will have an effect on the result.

I used to design websites and photographers were NEVER happy with the images produced both on media platforms and printed media - they were quite a nightmare to work with most of them :)

So what is needed is a consensus taking all the available colour information provided including the camera settings (colour, aperture etc - and the weather conditions too), and even the make and model of the camera, when the said bird was photographed.

Bird identification, in the end, is based on consensus, yes?
 
RichieTwitchy said:
So what is needed is a consensus taking all the available colour information provided including the camera settings (colour, aperture etc - and the weather conditions too), and even the make and model of the camera, when the said bird was photographed.
Click to expand...
I don't know what you mean.
 
So people should seek/await a consensus of views on the trustworthiness of every photo's colour rendition before offering an ID? - or before posting a useful colour-corrected alternative as Mr Small did? I don't sense that your suggestion is practical.
 
Butty said:
So people should seek/await a consensus of views on the trustworthiness of every photo's colour rendition before offering an ID? - or before posting a useful colour-corrected alternative as Mr Small did? I don't sense that your suggestion is practical.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that at all.

My point is one that it would be useful when identifying individuals who are of a more 'rare' persuasion where id is undoubtedly more important and significant than id-ing a Dunlin, say.
 
Actually everyone is free to believe what they like about the images posted here. That goes for putative IDs too. If you disagree that's up to you...
 
RichieTwitchy said:
My point is one that it would be useful when identifying individuals who are of a more 'rare' persuasion where id is undoubtedly more important and significant than id-ing a Dunlin, say.
Click to expand...
All birds are equal... ... Especially if it's something you've never seen before.

Wrt to colour casts etc: all you have to do is state that you think the image is affected and what that effect is, what the implications are. Everyone else can then decide themselves.
 
THE_FERN said:
All birds are equal... ... Especially if it's something you've never seen before.

Wrt to colour casts etc: all you have to do is state that you think the image is affected and what that effect is, what the implications are. Everyone else can then decide themselves.
Click to expand...

I just think that the more actual information there is to consider then the better the chances of a positive id.
 
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