Nikkor 500mm f5.46pf lens - any users yet ? (1 Viewer)

Just got an email from Adorama here in the states. My 500 f/5.6 just shipped! Should arrive on Tuesday -- 7 months after ordering it. Anyway, very happy it is going to show up. Maybe Wednesday needs to be a vacation day from work

I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread... A couple in flight shots on the Flickr group struck me as quite impressive:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53665936@N07/32727905937/in/pool-3147311@N24/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/birdsaspoetry/40736595973/in/pool-3147311@N24/

These were taken by 2 different photographers on different continents, but both shot wide open on D500's, with no teleconverter. I think we all hope for images like these and you get them not so much because you have a great lens as because you get out a lot.

Also, in case you did not already see, back on March 9 Brad Hill posted a second detailed report on the lens, and he is still raving about it. Click here and scroll down to his March 9 entry.

Dave

I've been using the 500mm f/5.6e on the d850 and Z7 for a couple weeks now. Here's my opinion on it.

It's very light and easy to carry and hand hold. You all knew that.

I've gotten some great photos with it. For example this heron (d850) and this owl (z7, 1.4xtc, 1/40th sec, tripod).

On the Z7 for those owl shots, the autofocus was slow, but it did seem to latch on the eye very well even with foreground clutter. It worked very well with the TC 1.4x on the Z7 on a tripod with some manual focus adjustments now and then. The live-view magnified focusing really is a winner with this combo, and being able to shoot in silent mode lets me use really slow shutter speeds even at 700mm (with IBIS + VR on).

My main issue with the lens is that the focus is not too fast. It's OK on the d850, but it can have problems on the Z7. Hopefully the next firmware release will help. I'm holding my breath until then.

I did a few non-scientific tests with the d850 and z7 and the Nikon 70-200 f/2.8e, Tammy 150-600 G2 (at 600), and 500 f/5.6e. I switched between two focus points. One was in normal interior lighting and was a white box with black letters. The other was an unpainted wood fence in overcast daylight.

Results (using AF-C and single point autofocus):

70-200 was near instant on both d850 and z7 for both targets.

The Tammy on the d850 on the outdoor target is a little slow, but does not seek. On the indoor target, it might start going the wrong way, then correct quickly, then lock on. A bit worse than the outdoor target. On the Z7, for both the indoor and outdoor targets, it usually does one partial seek the wrong way, then corrects and locks on, though slower than the d850. Also, once it locks on it still wanders in/out a little in AF-C. On both targets, the Z7 is not very consistent, sometimes it's worse than I described.

The 500mm f/5.6e on the d850 is pretty fast on the outdoor target, faster than the Tammy. It does not seek, but goes directly into focus. It is not instant like the 70-200, but it's good. On the indoor target, it usually partially seeks once then locks on. It's a bit faster than the Tammy and does not wander in AF-C. On the Z7 for the outdoor target, it's almost as fast as the d850. Maybe hunts a tiny bit to get fine focus, but locks on well. On the indoor target, it is a disaster. Hunts back and forth multiple times through a large range, and sometimes does not lock on for a long time. I'd say it's unusable.

Marc

Yeah gotta wait out this backorder first, I think I'll be fine with it though. I own a d850 and I have no intention of using the lens indoors anyway.

marcsantacurz said:

I've been using the 500mm f/5.6e on the d850 and Z7 for a couple weeks now. Here's my opinion on it.

It's very light and easy to carry and hand hold. You all knew that.

I've gotten some great photos with it. For example this heron (d850) and this owl (z7, 1.4xtc, 1/40th sec, tripod).

On the Z7 for those owl shots, the autofocus was slow, but it did seem to latch on the eye very well even with foreground clutter. It worked very well with the TC 1.4x on the Z7 on a tripod with some manual focus adjustments now and then. The live-view magnified focusing really is a winner with this combo, and being able to shoot in silent mode lets me use really slow shutter speeds even at 700mm (with IBIS + VR on).

My main issue with the lens is that the focus is not too fast. It's OK on the d850, but it can have problems on the Z7. Hopefully the next firmware release will help. I'm holding my breath until then.

I did a few non-scientific tests with the d850 and z7 and the Nikon 70-200 f/2.8e, Tammy 150-600 G2 (at 600), and 500 f/5.6e. I switched between two focus points. One was in normal interior lighting and was a white box with black letters. The other was an unpainted wood fence in overcast daylight.

Results (using AF-C and single point autofocus):

70-200 was near instant on both d850 and z7 for both targets.

The Tammy on the d850 on the outdoor target is a little slow, but does not seek. On the indoor target, it might start going the wrong way, then correct quickly, then lock on. A bit worse than the outdoor target. On the Z7, for both the indoor and outdoor targets, it usually does one partial seek the wrong way, then corrects and locks on, though slower than the d850. Also, once it locks on it still wanders in/out a little in AF-C. On both targets, the Z7 is not very consistent, sometimes it's worse than I described.

The 500mm f/5.6e on the d850 is pretty fast on the outdoor target, faster than the Tammy. It does not seek, but goes directly into focus. It is not instant like the 70-200, but it's good. On the indoor target, it usually partially seeks once then locks on. It's a bit faster than the Tammy and does not wander in AF-C. On the Z7 for the outdoor target, it's almost as fast as the d850. Maybe hunts a tiny bit to get fine focus, but locks on well. On the indoor target, it is a disaster. Hunts back and forth multiple times through a large range, and sometimes does not lock on for a long time. I'd say it's unusable.

Marc

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I have the 500 5.6 , D500 and D850. Also the Tammy. Haven't touched the Tammy since I got the 500 lens. It's so light and sharp! I can hand hold at times, or use a monopod. Also much prefer the D850 to the D500, even though the D500 might be faster and has more FPS. It doesn't have the image quality and it's only good in good light at higher ISO. This lens is great with a D750 as well.


Here's one of my favorite photos with D850+500 5.6

Pretty large crop-maybe 1/2 frame.

animalartist2 said:

I have the 500 5.6 , D500 and D850. Also the Tammy. Haven't touched the Tammy since I got the 500 lens. It's so light and sharp! I can hand hold at times, or use a monopod. Also much prefer the D850 to the D500, even though the D500 might be faster and has more FPS. It doesn't have the image quality and it's only good in good light at higher ISO. This lens is great with a D750 as well.


Here's one of my favorite photos with D850+500 5.6

Pretty large crop-maybe 1/2 frame.

Click to expand...

I've been very happy with it on the d850 too. The VR is really good on it. I also have not been using the Tammy 150-600 since I got the 500.

Here's an example of hand-held, 1/160th, f/8, 700mm (with 1.4x tc), plus flash (godox v860ii + better beamer) on a great horned owl fledgling hiding in tall Eucalyptus in pretty deep shadow. It's cropped down to 12MP (2x crop factor), then downsampled a lot to fit as an attachment.

I agree about the d500 -- I had both the d750 + d500 for a while, then when I got the d850, and for me it replaced both of them. The IQ is really fantastic on the d850 and I can always crop down to about the same MP as the d500. I use the d5 battery in the grip for 9 FPS.

Marc

opticoholic said:

IMHO, there is no good reason not to simply explain to dealers and customers what specifically is causing the delay.

It is just another example of what has always frustrated me about Nikon's relationship to customers: Secrecy. Silence. Distance. I try to remain objective and give them the benefit of the doubt, but the void created by the absence of information ultimately leads to negative thoughts: They are "aloof" and they don't care, or they are afraid to tell us the truth for some reason.

Dave

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I went for two years with autofocus problems with the Canon 1d Mark IV camera and Canon continually releasing new firmware fixes that were worthless and refusing to acknowledge the extent of the problem. As a CPS member and pro photographer the support I got was terrible. When the Nikon D3 was announced I immediately put in my order for two of them.

With the 500mm PF lens I would guess that Nikon grossly underestimated the demand for this lens which I can understand. Does one go by the sales figures for the 500mm f/4 that sells for $8,000 or those for the 200-500mm zoom that sells for $1600 and what factor does one apply to those numbers for a 500mm f/5.6 prime lens? The product manager probably went with the 500mm f/4 numbers for their base and then used a factor that was too low.

It is not a simple matter to double or triple production for a new lens design with all new components and castings. And add in the Trump Tax which is adding 25% to the cost of products shipping out from China, and if the Nikon dealers are paying an additional $900 then one has to decide on how many units will sell when the retail price goes up to $4400. Nikon may be in the processing of moving its manufacturing out of China which would also hamper output.

Elkhornsun said:

I went for two years with autofocus problems with the Canon 1d Mark IV camera and Canon continually releasing new firmware fixes that were worthless and refusing to acknowledge the extent of the problem. As a CPS member and pro photographer the support I got was terrible. When the Nikon D3 was announced I immediately put in my order for two of them.

With the 500mm PF lens I would guess that Nikon grossly underestimated the demand for this lens which I can understand. Does one go by the sales figures for the 500mm f/4 that sells for $8,000 or those for the 200-500mm zoom that sells for $1600 and what factor does one apply to those numbers for a 500mm f/5.6 prime lens? The product manager probably went with the 500mm f/4 numbers for their base and then used a factor that was too low.

It is not a simple matter to double or triple production for a new lens design with all new components and castings. And add in the Trump Tax which is adding 25% to the cost of products shipping out from China, and if the Nikon dealers are paying an additional $900 then one has to decide on how many units will sell when the retail price goes up to $4400. Nikon may be in the processing of moving its manufacturing out of China which would also hamper output.

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From what I've heard the main issue is that Nikon don't have a lot of people who can construct these new lenses, they are apparently shipping out around 1000 a month.

john118 said:

From what I've heard the main issue is that Nikon don't have a lot of people who can construct these new lenses, they are apparently shipping out around 1000 a month.

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Yes, this is correct - people and equipment (process cells/ times or production lines).
This seems quite a good lens so the demand will continue.

While ever this situation persists, I imagine it delays the introduction of the much desired PF 600 f5.6. :eek!: I hope Nikon learns some lessons and substantially gears up production numbers for the 600 from the get go .....

P.S. Hurry Up Nikon !!!



Chosun :gh:

Chosun Juan said:

While ever this situation persists, I imagine it delays the introduction of the much desired PF 600 f5.6. :eek!: I hope Nikon learns some lessons and substantially gears up production numbers for the 600 from the get go .....

P.S. Hurry Up Nikon !!!

Click to expand...

You've been pushing this idea for months now, and I don't really think you're on the right track.

I know a few blokes who use the 500/5.6, and they told me they wouldn't switch to a 600/5.6 because they'd have to pay quite a heavy price for those extra 100mm in focal length: It would be bigger, heavier (and more expensive) than the 500/5.6.

According to them the biggest attraction of the 500/5.6 is its excellent image quality combined with its low weight and smallish size, making it easy to use it without a tripod for extended periods of time. It's also light enough to take it on longer hikes. A (necessarily heavier and bigger) 600/5,6 wouldn't work for them.

And maybe they're right. In fact, I think it's highly likely they're right. I'd hazard a guess that if Nikon does indeed start making a 600/5.6 at some stage, they won't sell anywhere as many of them as they do of the 500/5.6.

Hermann

That seems a plausible argument.
The light weight of the 500 makes it a 400 replacement with comparable image quality and better reach.
So Nikon would be best served to ride the winners and let the others, such as the bigger 600, wait their turn.

Hermann said:

You've been pushing this idea for months now, and I don't really think you're on the right track.

I know a few blokes who use the 500/5.6, and they told me they wouldn't switch to a 600/5.6 because they'd have to pay quite a heavy price for those extra 100mm in focal length: It would be bigger, heavier (and more expensive) than the 500/5.6.

According to them the biggest attraction of the 500/5.6 is its excellent image quality combined with its low weight and smallish size, making it easy to use it without a tripod for extended periods of time. It's also light enough to take it on longer hikes. A (necessarily heavier and bigger) 600/5,6 wouldn't work for them.

And maybe they're right. In fact, I think it's highly likely they're right. I'd hazard a guess that if Nikon does indeed start making a 600/5.6 at some stage, they won't sell anywhere as many of them as they do of the 500/5.6.

Hermann

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No doubt the light weight of the 500 is very appealing. However I would expect the 600 to only be marginally more ~1.75kg .... so ~300g is not that much between friends

It is still going to offer a handy weight reduction over the superzoom telephotos, a handy length reduction (compared to extended), a half stop extra speed, and much better IQ, and AF performance.

It will still be very pointable on something like a D500 or D7500, work handheld for extended periods, and on long hikes (relatively). I agree that it will be more expensive and sell in lesser quantities.

If the price is kept to a reasonable marginal cost increase then those numbers may again be quite healthy. It's only natural competitor (the Canon 7DII /[90D] and DO 400 f4 ISII + 1.4×TC) is still going to be significantly heavier (~0.5kg) and more expensive.

The PF 600 f5.6 well priced would be a winner - allowing performance that is just not available in the market at present. Any investment in bringing that to market would provide better returns than Nikon is currently getting, and go some way to plugging a strategic hole in Nikon's business offering (Canon's long lens light weight superiority - with Sony starting to get in on the act too).

It would also go some way to rounding out a viable birding/sporting/wildlife long lens system offering, halting the projected DSLR decline, and giving new life to a new iteration of body offerings (D500S, D7600, D760, and even Z7, Z8, etc).

I can understand that the lucky ones already sporting a PF 500 f5.6 though, must find it to be quite the revelation !




Chosun :gh:

Chosun Juan said:

No doubt the light weight of the 500 is very appealing. However I would expect the 600 to only be marginally more ~1.75kg .... so ~300g is not that much between friends
...
I can understand that the lucky ones already sporting a PF 500 f5.6 though, must find it to be quite the revelation !

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I think Chosun is in the ballpark with the 300g estimate. Might be more like 300g - 500g, but still not too much. I think the main issue would be with the extra 100mm would it become more front heavy or could they keep it well balanced.

Nikon really needs some lighter lenses. Canon had the 400 f/4 DO for a long time. And Nikon's 400/2.8 and 500/4 and 600/4 are beasts compared to Canon and Sony current offers. The 400/2.8 is a kg heavier than C&S.

In regards to the surprise, I don't think it was much of one (if I'm reading Chosun's last sentence correctly). Nikon often introduces things in backwards order so if you really want it you buy it twice. I, personally, would upgrade to the 600/5.6. The FL's 600/5.6, 840/8, 900/5.6, 1260/8 (mixing FX and DX and 1.4x TC) are much better for birding than the 500/5.6, 700/8, 750/5.6, 1050/8.

Marc

In March I took the 500mm PF along with the 600mm f/4E lens to Costa Rica. In the river boats and in the dense forests I left the 600mm lens behind and took the 500mm PF along with the 80-400mm zoom. In the dark cloud forests around Santa Elena I used the 500mm PF on the D850 and I was shooting at ISO 2800 to ISO 6400 and with a shutter speed of 1/250s at f/5.6 and f/8.

On the forest trails there was seldom room for the tripod mounted 600mm f/4 lens and it would have also been too long and with too narrow a view angle unless all I wanted was a bird ID shot. In many situations the 600mm is too long a lens and detracts from the subject by isolating them from their environment.

The 500mm PF lens is like have a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens attached to the camera. No issues with hand holding it for hours of shooting and no need for a tripod and so I am much more mobile and it is easy to shoot at the eye level of my subjects (possible with a tripod but it takes much more time and effort). It is the perfect lens for shooting from a small boat or plane or even when using a car as ones blind or hide.

In many areas where bird feeders or hides are used the distance from the camera to the subjects is relatively short and longer lens is not advantageous and that is why I always have the 80-400mm zoom with me on trips. Even a 500mm lens can be too long on a APS-C camera in these circumstances.

What I had not realized at first was that having a 45MP D850 in full frame mode also provided me with a 19MP APS-C capability that meant a 500mm lens provids nearly the same working image size as a 800mm lens attached to a 20MP full frame camera like the D5 or 1d X. The D850 provides maximum view angle with a lens and also becomes a very usable crop camera. After the Costa Rica trip I realized that the D500 was not a good backup or primary camera and sold it. I will be buying a second D850 next week to have a backup camera and to minimize lens changes out in the field.

The D850 is the first camera to provide 95% of the autofocus performance of the D5 level cameras AND to provide a high resolution image size in the files (D5 in crop mode becomes in essence an 8MP camera). Noise is well controlled at ISO 6400.

At places like Yellowstone for example a 600mm with teleconverters is the way to go. But in heavily wooded areas or out on waterways the 500mm PF works much better. Nice to have options though having this lens in such short supply means it is not replaceable should it be damaged or stolen. A bit of a quandary.

Elkhornsun said:

The 500mm PF lens is like have a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens attached to the camera. What I had not realized at first was that having a 45MP D850 in full frame mode also provided me with a 19MP APS-C capability that meant a 500mm lens provids nearly the same working image size as a 800mm lens attached to a 20MP full frame camera like the D5 or 1d X. The D850 provides maximum view angle with a lens and also becomes a very usable crop camera. After the Costa Rica trip I realized that the D500 was not a good backup or primary camera and sold it. I will be buying a second D850 next week to have a backup camera and to minimize lens changes out in the field.

The D850 is the first camera to provide 95% of the autofocus performance of the D5 level cameras AND to provide a high resolution image size in the files (D5 in crop mode becomes in essence an 8MP camera). Noise is well controlled at ISO 6400.

Click to expand...

I used to have the d750 + d500. Once I got the d850, I sold both. Like you, I am perfectly happy with the 19MP DX crop on the d850. I almost always shoot FX and crop in post, rather than pre-crop. it's easier to find stuff and track birds. I also use the D5 batter in the grip for 9 FPS, so apart from the weight and cost, it's almost like a full-frame d500 except better

I also agree about the ISO quality on the d850. It's really good out to 6400 and OK out to 12500.

I'm very happy with the d850 + 500 PF, even with the 1.4eiii TC.

Marc

Just got an email with an order confirmation and invoice from the dealer I pre-ordered with. After 6 months i'm hoping this means my 500mm pf is ready for delivery.

Demand exceeds Supply ?
https://m.dpreview.com/news/0492240...1-000-units-of-its-500mm-f5-6-lens-each-month




Chosun :gh:

According to Nikon staff in the UK, production has been doubled with effect from this month.

Bill

For those that owned the 200-500mm and now the 500PF has the improvement blown your socks off?

Bear Dale said:

For those that owned the 200-500mm and now the 500PF has the improvement blown your socks off?

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I had the 200-500 f/5.6 around when it came out. It takes great photos, but was cumbersome for me to use and had really slow zoom speed (took a lot of turns to zoom).

When I went to Alaska for a few weeks, I sold the 200-500 and got the Tammy 150-600 G2, as it is much more compact and gives me the extra 100mm. I was happier with the Tammy than the 200-500.

I got the 500 f/5.6 a few months ago, and it's pretty much the only lens I use now for birds. I would sell the 150-600, but I have delusions that it is more practical for travel with the zoom, but I end up taking the 500mm. I think the 150-600 should go up for sale soon. I don't really miss the zoom, though I do miss the last 100mm.

I use it on a d850 and the results, even when cropped super heavily for something like an equivalent 2000 - 2500mm field of view, are very good if you keep the ISO down and speed up. I'm usually shooting at high speeds as I will be cropping a lot, so the VR is not as important for me. But when I'm up close and getting a good full frame view, I can drop down to lower speeds with VR and get good results.

It works OK with a 1.4xTC, but I find on the d850 I get better results just cropping. Bumping up to f/8 is no fun and the AF performance suffers.

The weight is fantastic. It is easily the most carriable long lens for Nikon.

Marc