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Is it worth 7X?

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Old Tuesday 9th July 2019, 14:34   #1
pluton
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Is it worth 7X?

Hello,
Some time ago I am considering the purchase of a good binocular type 7X42mm, which has a good contrast and sharpness, and I would like to know your opinion about it, if really a model like this can work properly to observe the birds., Sometimes I think that 7X can be scarce ....

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Old Tuesday 9th July 2019, 16:16   #2
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Hello,
Some time ago I am considering the purchase of a good binocular type 7X42mm, which has a good contrast and sharpness, and I would like to know your opinion about it, if really a model like this can work properly to observe the birds., Sometimes I think that 7X can be scarce ....

Regards,
Pluto
Hello Pluto,

Are you writing of a particular 7x42 mm or about 7x42 mm binoculars in general?
Yes, the choices for a new one is rather poor.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
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Old Tuesday 9th July 2019, 18:06   #3
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I've been interested in exploring the 7x format, to get something wider or brighter than an 8x. But I have to say, my 8.5x42 ELs really are hard to beat. I think from a practical standpoint of time to find one or money to pay for one, modern 8x will be much more affordable and likely serve you better. I'm just personally curious about the format so have been buying/selling some models to try them out. My girlfriend, who has hand shakes, finds her Opticron 7x42 Discovery easier to use than 8x; she also likes the $250 price much better than my expensive 8x. I prefer my ELs or Zeiss HTs (10x42).

I got a pair of Dialyt 7x42 BGATP. They are very clear and 1* wider than the EL. But I end up not using them much because I find them more difficult to use and they are a larger body, very long. I find I need to adjust the IPD a some after re-focusing. The movable eyepieces to focus is unfamiliar to me (I assume if I used them more, this would become less of a problem to me). Also, the flat field view of the ELs is just fantastic.

Just the other day, I found a good deal of the Nikon EDG II 7x42 and they arrive today (hurray!). So I'll see how those go. They are 8*, so only 0.5* more than the ELs, so I doubt I'll notice any difference in that aspect.

I considered the Maven B2 7x45 but they are heavier (33oz vs 28 for the Zeiss or 27 Nikon) and narrow FoV at 7.4*.

The Zeiss Victory FL 7x42 would be interesting to try at 8.5*, same as the Dialyt. But they are very rare to find.

There's also the Swaro traditional porro, but they are a much more narrow FoV and I've read mixed things about their ease of use. The optics are supposed to be very good. And you can find them new for about $680 (imports). They are fairly light.

You can find the Ultravid HD 7x42 for about $1200 and the Trinovid BA for about $700-$800. Some say there is little difference between them and the current HD+ (apart from weight and body style), others say they can see the difference. The Ultravids (BR, HD, HD+) are in the 27oz range and 8* FoV. If the EDG do not work out for me, I'll sell them and try the Ultravid.

The Swarovski SLC 7x42 can be found readily used, but they are heavier (33.5oz) with a good 8* FoV.

I've also started playing with some inexpensive 7x35 and 6x30/24 formats for a truly wide field of view (11*).

Only the Opticron Discovery (0.75m, 4.9'), Maven and Zeiss FL (1m, 6.6') have decent close-focus. Then come the EDG and Meopta Meostar (9.8') then the Ultravids (~10').

Or, get the Zeiss SF 8x42 for the same 8* FoV and 4.9' close focus and flat field!

Marc
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 01:01   #4
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Pluto,

You are getting good advice here. As Arthur says we could better help you if you want to ask about a particular model of 7x42.

Marc, nice post and info. You will very likely love the 7x42 format in either Zeiss FL, Leica UVHD+, or EDG (How are the EDG btw?) I have the UVHD+ and EDG and have compared together side by side with the FL. All are excellent but I slightly prefer the EDG. But for me, it took a while of using in the field to appreciate the advantages the EDG brings to the table.

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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 03:05   #5
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Marc, nice post and info. You will very likely love the 7x42 format in either Zeiss FL, Leica UVHD+, or EDG (How are the EDG btw?) I have the UVHD+ and EDG and have compared together side by side with the FL. All are excellent but I slightly prefer the EDG. But for me, it took a while of using in the field to appreciate the advantages the EDG brings to the table.
I've only just gotten the EDG 7x42 today and tried them out in the backyard. They are easier to use than the Dialyt and much more compact. I think they have a very good view, but need to use them in different conditions and out in the field.

The sample I got used has a loose hinge. It will not stay in position on its own. I'll send them in to Nikon and see what they say. They were about $400 less than new imports from Japan, so hopefully that will be enough and I won't end up in the hole.

I have a camera setup to take some test shots through-the-lens of the EDG and Dialyt, to see what the sharpness and falloff look like. I'll post some results on that after I work out the kinks.
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 03:13   #6
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Marc,

The hinge for the EDG can be tightened quite easily, a couple of tools necessary. Check the historical posts on the EDG below.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...hten+EDG+Hinge


Andy W.
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 04:15   #7
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Marc,

The hinge for the EDG can be tightened quite easily, a couple of tools necessary. Check the historical posts on the EDG below.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...hten+EDG+Hinge


Andy W.
thank you thank you! $14 for a spanner is the right price!

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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 14:22   #8
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Try a Habicht 7x42 porro. Brighter, lighter and less expensive than any of the roof's.
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 15:21   #9
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Hello,
I have seen prices and features of different models 7X42, really there is not much ... or at least not as many as those of 8X
42 to give an example .... truly of all those who mentioned the Swarovski Habicht 7X42 is by far the cheapest .. although I have read that its field is a bit narrow, but if quality really is on par with the Zeiss or Leica ... ummm! It may be worth it !!
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 15:35   #10
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Hello,
I have seen prices and features of different models 7X42, really there is not much ... or at least not as many as those of 8X
42 to give an example .... truly of all those who mentioned the Swarovski Habicht 7X42 is by far the cheapest .. although I have read that its field is a bit narrow, but if quality really is on par with the Zeiss or Leica ... ummm! It may be worth it !!
Pluto
I've heard the optics are good and people do like going out with them. I think their main weakness is the narrower FoV. When I listed "Swaro traditional porro" I meant the Habicht 7x42 M (optional GA). Make sure they are the M or M/GA. You'll find older porros called Habicht that are not these.

Someone else posted a link to this vendor and said they bought from the vendor (sorry, don't remember the thread right now, but if you search the forum you should find it). There are also used copies that pop up from time to time. I've not used them (yet).

The Nikon EDG 7x42 (the II model with a single bridge) is also turning out to be a nice offering. It is a roof style with internal focus, good eye relief. I've been enjoying them so far, though I only have 1 day of experience with them so far.

Marc
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 15:37   #11
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Try a Habicht 7x42 porro. Brighter, lighter and less expensive than any of the roof's.
Hi,

it would be an option if they hadn't used undersized prisms and non-wideangle EPs for whatever reason... but 114/100m or 6.5 deg is not quite comparable with the rest...

Joachim

Last edited by jring : Wednesday 10th July 2019 at 22:12. Reason: added the missing word prisms
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Old Wednesday 10th July 2019, 17:09   #12
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Hello,

I owned the Habicht 7x42 and found the FOV constrained. As an eyeglass wearer, the sudden popping up of the eye cups could be more than disconcerting.

I had great pleasure with the last versions of the 7x42 Zeiss Classic: a nice FOV, chromatic aberration was well controlled, and considering the size, easy to handle. I found the Leica 7x42 BA to be less useful.

The Zeiss 7x42 has a good reputation but it is hard to find.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 00:42   #13
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Habicht 7x42 Porro for birding?

As many will be aware, I’m a fan of the Habicht Porros

BUT for a number of reasons I would not recommend any of them as a general purpose birding bino,
and in particular the 7x42’s very narrow FOV (114 meters at 1000 meters/ 342 feet at 1000 yards), is a significant additional count against birding use
- see my summary here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.p...6&postcount=16


The Habichts are much more acceptable for general outdoor use, offering lots of bang for the buck, and are also a very nice addition for an enthusiast who wants to explore binocular qualities

And since they've been in production for so long, some notes for those considering second hand models, which offer even more value:
- the current fogproof version was introduced in 1984 (it’s immediately recognisable by the valve cap screws on the front bridge arms)
- the first multi-coated (aka Swarotop) version was introduced in 1991 (the image was slightly yellow)
- the coating was significantly updated by Feb 1997 (resulting in a very slightly yellow image) *
- and the coating was again updated in Aug 2009 (the current paper white version)

* some perspective: the degree of yellowness of my late-1999 8x30 model is similar to that of my mid-2006 SLC 8x30, and is slightly less than that of my Nikon EII 8x30 #811,134 purchased from Japan in 2012

Confirmation of the coating changes is easy, as in 1991 Alpha-Numeric serial numbering was introduced
- the number includes both the year and month of production (see this post and especially the second attachment: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=369004 )


John

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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 14:51   #14
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Hello,

I owned the Habicht 7x42 and found the FOV constrained. As an eyeglass wearer, the sudden popping up of the eye cups could be more than disconcerting.

I had great pleasure with the last versions of the 7x42 Zeiss Classic: a nice FOV, chromatic aberration was well controlled, and considering the size, easy to handle. I found the Leica 7x42 BA to be less useful.

The Zeiss 7x42 has a good reputation but it is hard to find.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
The Habicht's in general are not suited for eyeglass wearers because of less eye relief than many roof's.
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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 14:55   #15
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Hi,

it would be an option if they hadn't used undersized prisms and non-wideangle EPs for whatever reason... but 114/100m or 6.5 deg is not quite comparable with the rest...

Joachim
Swarovski used simple Kellner eyepieces to keep the weight down on the 7x42 Habicht's and the transmission high because there is less glass in them to absorb light. They were probably designed for a low light easy to carry light weight hunting binocular. They have a narrower FOV but boy is it bright, clear and sharp. You adapt to the smaller FOV and get spoiled by the 3D view.
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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 15:05   #16
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"BUT for a number of reasons I would not recommend any of them as a general purpose birding bino."

I disagree. I used my Habicht's 10x40 W all over Yellowstone National Park for birding and wildlife and they worked superbly. They just require that you adapt to their differences from a roof. The 3D view helped me pick out Grizzly Bears in the deep woods like no roof prism could and I can't describe how beautiful the birds looked especially in the wetlands. The birds looked REAL with stunning 3D clarity. The 7x42 Habicht's are just as good except with a narrower FOV but they are brighter and have the advantage of the bigger exit pupil so when you use them the view just pops with stunning clarity and brightness. I like the 7x42 Habicht's much better than any other 7x42 I have tried including the EDG. Let me tell you I really enjoy using the 7x42 Habicht's and I thought I would be put off because of the narrower FOV but they make up for it in other ways. If you have never used them for birding or whatever don't discount them. I have 3 Swarovski SV's and I have been using my Habicht's for birding.That is how good they are. Don't tell me you can't use a Habicht for birding.

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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 18:48   #17
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I think this discussion leans on ergonomics/preference, as the ER likely rules out the Habicht for some who wear glasses as some thought the Nikon SE was a problem with kidney bean shaped blackouts and those have more than sufficient ER. I am sure the optics are fine in either Habicht, some I guess have moved on from porros to only use roof prisms. I am sure I would find pleasure viewing with either as they would provide some great 3-D views.

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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 19:13   #18
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"BUT for a number of reasons I would not recommend any of them as a general purpose birding bino."

I disagree. I used my Habicht's 10x40 W all over Yellowstone National Park for birding and wildlife and they worked superbly. They just require that you adapt to their differences from a roof. The 3D view helped me pick out Grizzly Bears in the deep woods like no roof prism could and I can't describe how beautiful the birds looked especially in the wetlands. The birds looked REAL with stunning 3D clarity. The 7x42 Habicht's are just as good except with a narrower FOV but they are brighter and have the advantage of the bigger exit pupil so when you use them the view just pops with stunning clarity and brightness. I like the 7x42 Habicht's much better than any other 7x42 I have tried including the EDG. Let me tell you I really enjoy using the 7x42 Habicht's and I thought I would be put off because of the narrower FOV but they make up for it in other ways. If you have never used them for birding or whatever don't discount them. I have 3 Swarovski SV's and I have been using my Habicht's for birding.That is how good they are. Don't tell me you can't use a Habicht for birding.
I've not used the Habicht, but the 10x40w and 7x42m seem to be apples and oranges when comparing FoVs. The 10x40s are somewhat competitive with other 10x: 324' @ 1000yd. Others are 330' (SLC, UVHD+), 341' (EDG II), up to 360' (SF). I use the HT (331'). So 324'? Yeah, a little narrow but no big deal. The 7x42M are only 342'! Compare that to 420' (SLC/HVHD+) - 495' (Dialyt BGAT), there is an enormous difference. The thing is, without looking through them, it's all just numbers. Maybe the brightness is worth it? But I'd maybe lean 10x40 over 7x42.

Maybe my bias is that I think of 7x for wider fov, not for brightness. I usually think of the 8x50 or 10x54-56 for brightness.

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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 21:14   #19
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I warmly recommend the Leica 7x42. I have the Ultravid HD, there is now an HD+ and there are old versions around, that can be bought used.

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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 21:45   #20
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I've not used the Habicht, but the 10x40w and 7x42m seem to be apples and oranges when comparing FoVs. The 10x40s are somewhat competitive with other 10x: 324' @ 1000yd. Others are 330' (SLC, UVHD+), 341' (EDG II), up to 360' (SF). I use the HT (331'). So 324'? Yeah, a little narrow but no big deal. The 7x42M are only 342'! Compare that to 420' (SLC/HVHD+) - 495' (Dialyt BGAT), there is an enormous difference. The thing is, without looking through them, it's all just numbers. Maybe the brightness is worth it? But I'd maybe lean 10x40 over 7x42.

Maybe my bias is that I think of 7x for wider fov, not for brightness. I usually think of the 8x50 or 10x54-56 for brightness.

Marc
That is what I thought too! I was a little hesitant to try the Habicht 7x42 because of the narrow FOV but even with the narrower FOV it is an amazing binocular! I really like using it because it is so bright and sharp and it has such easy eye placement plus it is so LIGHT for a 42mm. Less than 23 oz.! I had the EDG 7x42 and I will tell you I would take the Habicht any day over it.
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Old Thursday 11th July 2019, 23:46   #21
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That is what I thought too! I was a little hesitant to try the Habicht 7x42 because of the narrow FOV but even with the narrower FOV it is an amazing binocular! I really like using it because it is so bright and sharp and it has such easy eye placement plus it is so LIGHT for a 42mm. Less than 23 oz.! I had the EDG 7x42 and I will tell you I would take the Habicht any day over it.
Do you use the black or the green armor? Is there any significant difference between those housings? It looks like the GA still has some exposed metal pieces painted green.

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Old Friday 12th July 2019, 00:00   #22
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In terms of selecting from 7x42 models, a quick overview of the quality choices for birding would include:

A) CURRENT PRODUCTION
Leica Ultravid HD+
Swarovski Habicht Porro

If you want the latest new/ unused, the Leica is clearly the only way to go
Notwithstanding the quality of the Swarovski image (both detail and transmission) and relatively low price, keep in mind my previously stated reservations for full-time birding


B) NEAR CURRENT
Nikon EDG - v2 with single bridge (2011? to 2018)
Leica Ultravid HD (2007 to 2016)
Meopta MeoStar B1 (2005? to 2017)

If you hunt around I’m sure any of these could be found as New Old Stock. However, they can also be found far more cheaply second hand
The Leica is often particularly good value compared to the HD+ version
The Meopta is generally under rated, as optically it is perhaps 95% of the quality of the Alpha choices, but it is also heavy (31.3 oz/ 890 g)
- the main problem is that the quality of it’s coatings significantly improved during the production, but I’m unaware of how to distinguish the changes by dating/ serial numbering,
so as is always best: try before you buy


C) EARLIER
Zeiss Victory FL (2004 to 2012)
Swarovski SLC (1992 to 2009)

The high quality of the Zeiss is well known, and it has the advantage of a 150 meter FOV
The Swarovski is known for a wide sweet spot, but also for being heavy (33.5 oz/ 950 g)
- and due to it’s long production I’d recommend an SLC neu (the one with forrest green body and black bridge inserts) which was made from 2005 to 2009,
it has dielectric prism coatings which were introduced on the 7x42 in late 2000, along with the then most up-to-date AR coatings


CHOOSING
All of the above are good to great choices (excepting the reservations in relation to the Swarovski Porro), so it’s a matter of trading off features, and seeing what best works for you
- so again where possible, try before you buy
And for many, the deciding factor may be the pragmatic one - the one you can get at a good price!


COMPARISONS
For comparisons of the Leica HD+, Zeiss FL and the Nikon EDG, see Tobas Mennle’s comments: http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...mier7x42s.html
n.b. Tobias is a professional photographer and as such he places a far greater stress than many more casual users would, on the perceived qualities of the image produced by binoculars

I have both a Leica HD and a Zeiss FL (along with a current Swarovski Porro) and can confirm that each is a delight, though indeed the differences are as described by Tobias


John

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Old Friday 12th July 2019, 02:26   #23
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Do you use the black or the green armor? Is there any significant difference between those housings? It looks like the GA still has some exposed metal pieces painted green.

Marc
Unless you really need something that will survive the holocaust or you are into the military look I would get the black leatherette version because it is much lighter and IMO better looking than the green GA version. That is another thing nice about the Habicht's. The quality. Their build quality is 2nd to none. Every one I have purchased has been perfect in every way and I can't say that about many binoculars especially MIC binoculars I have bought. They are quite durable also. Here is one from the UK from an excellent seller called Bush-Wear and I have bought from him before and had no problems. The price new is $663.57 plus $19.63 shipping. He ships fast also. Less than a week from the UK.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Swarovski-T...8AAOSwmohc6xel

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Old Friday 12th July 2019, 03:04   #24
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Much cheaper 7x option (not 42mm), but still a good bino IMO is Sightmark Solitude 7x36 XD. I purchased one a few years after selling my Zen-ray 7x36. I missed the huge field of view. It's my go to for tight space birding such as in dense growth. Other than that 7x for me is not enough magnification to ID small birds at distance.
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Old Friday 12th July 2019, 04:57   #25
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Marc,

The hinge for the EDG can be tightened quite easily, a couple of tools necessary. Check the historical posts on the EDG below.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...hten+EDG+Hinge


Andy W.
I got the spanner today and it tightened the hinge right up. Perfect, thank you.


Marc
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