comparing big objective bins... (1 Viewer)

slingworks · Oct 2, 2019

I've decided to sell of unused glass and pick up a very large objective bin...

I've 2 models in mind. The Fujinon FMTR 7x50 and a sligtly older Zeiss 8x56 Victory from 2011 or so.

What I want is a wide, bright sharp field, (Bright in dawn and dusk as well) in 7 or 8x. Does the Zeiss surpass the Fujinon in any appreciable manner?

The Fujinon is IF....The Zeiss isnt...I'm ok with IF, but would prefer a CF bin, but at the same time I "generally" prefer a porro......

I've not tested either of these 2 exact models myself, and not really able to. (online deals).

What are the thoughts?

Mark9473 · Oct 2, 2019

An additional one to look at would be the Steiner Shadowquest 8x56 (in Europe called the NightHunter) which has had some favourable reviews on CloudyNights and on Allbinos. No personal experience with it however.

WJC · Oct 2, 2019

slingworks said:
I've decided to sell of unused glass and pick up a very large objective bin...

I've 2 models in mind. The Fujinon FMTR 7x50 and a sligtly older Zeiss 8x56 Victory from 2011 or so.

What I want is a wide, bright sharp field, (Bright in dawn and dusk as well) in 7 or 8x. Does the Zeiss surpass the Fujinon in any appreciable manner?

The Fujinon is IF....The Zeiss isnt...I'm ok with IF, but would prefer a CF bin, but at the same time I "generally" prefer a porro......

I've not tested either of these 2 exact models myself, and not really able to. (online deals).

What are the thoughts?

Thoughts attached. :cat:

Bill

slingworks · Oct 2, 2019

Well those are def. large bins...A little too large for what I had in mind

I bet they have some pretty shallow eye relief...

When I mentioned wide field, I'd like to see between 7.5-8.5 degrees actual.

dries1 · Oct 2, 2019

Slingworks,

Did you read the article?.

Andy W.

wllmspd · Oct 2, 2019

Large objective.... so not like my Widefield 30x70 APM which make long distance observing a real pleasure?
Most 7x50 have a narrow apparent field. The Nikon WX might fit the bill if you can still find any.

PEter

slingworks · Oct 2, 2019

hi dries1, sure I did read it.

When I don't know something I come on BirdForum to learn it.

I did read the Zeiss 8x56 has an AFOV of 59.2 and actual of 7.4...The WX are 66.6 AFOV? I thought the Zeiss sounded pretty good...considering all things.

I'd never be able to justify the cost of the WX series, even if one were to come up for sale, although I certainly would love to own one.

dries1 · Oct 2, 2019

Large aperture for low light, dusk/dawn tough to get wide field, except the Steiner, on paper that is.

SLC 8X56
Zeiss HT 8X54
Steiner 8X56 IF (widest FOV 8.4 degrees)

Zeiss FL - not made anymore, very good glass, only thing - tough to find these days, esp one not abused.
Zeiss Conquest 8X56 about $1,000 less than the HT or SLC.

I am not a fan of 7X50, but Fujinon makes a good IF model if that is the route you want. Leica also makes a 8X50, however the FOV of 6.7 is on the lower side, but ergonomically the best IMHO.

Good luck,

Andy W.

slingworks · Oct 3, 2019

Peter that 30x70 is probably a real gem. Wouldn't mind having one as well, I like powerful glass. For now though I need one I can carry a bit easier

denco@comcast.n · Oct 3, 2019

The Fujinon FMTR 7x50 and the Steiner Shadowquest 8x56 are both IF. Fine for astronomy but I can't see why you would want them for birding where you need fast focusing at different distances.

F88 · Oct 3, 2019

[email protected] said:
The Fujinon FMTR 7x50 and the Steiner Shadowquest 8x56 are both IF. Fine for astronomy but I can't see why you would want them for birding where you need fast focusing at different distances.

I have the FMTR 7x50, never used them for astronomy but occasionally use them for birding in particular circumstances but certainly agree that they definitely aren't suited to active birding. At around 1.5kg and IF they are never going to be a birding mainstay.
They do however tick all the boxes in question with a (reasonably) wide, sharp, bright view. All that bulk and weight has to account for something and I'd say the view is really good. I do however tire of the IF adjustment when actively viewing, IF is obviously much more suited where the DOF can take care of the work from middle distances to infinity. For example I really enjoy using mine from my balcony taking in the views or similar.
I think the main point will be whether you'll find yourself needing to frequently focus from near to far as this may well quickly become a bother, there's no question regarding the excellent quality of the image though.

PYRTLE · Oct 3, 2019

Only leaves the Zeiss if you rule out IF from your original post. A 2011 Victory 8 x 56 would be about my limit for a hand held, neck strap carrying bino for nature observation.......you may find a large objective Swarovski Porro prism somewhere, but not larger than 42mm, good luck.

wllmspd · Oct 3, 2019

For large exit pupil (twilight usage), big bins aren’t an option as you cannot get eyepieces with long enough focal length (the objectives tens to have longer focal ratios than “conventional” binoculars). I have some old 10degree 7x50, though the outer field is quite fluffy....

Peter

WJC · Oct 3, 2019

slingworks said:
I've decided to sell of unused glass and pick up a very large objective bin...

I've 2 models in mind. The Fujinon FMTR 7x50 and a sligtly older Zeiss 8x56 Victory from 2011 or so.

What I want is a wide, bright sharp field, (Bright in dawn and dusk as well) in 7 or 8x. Does the Zeiss surpass the Fujinon in any appreciable manner?

The Fujinon is IF....The Zeiss isnt...I'm ok with IF, but would prefer a CF bin, but at the same time I "generally" prefer a porro......

I've not tested either of these 2 exact models myself, and not really able to. (online deals).

What are the thoughts?

191003

Hi, Slingworks,

Most of those who have been around BF for a while, know I am not a fan of the myriad tests for this and that as they are subjective and rarely worthwhile over a range of observers. The following test—that I was coerced into devising—would be largely scientific and useful IF used for a single observer; in this case ... you.

When I read your post originally, I thought the Fujinon was one of two binoculars you were trying to get rid of in order to purchase a larger instrument. I have sold many of the Fujinon products, have owned two Nikon Prostars, and thought you might be interested in the findings.

Being a large IF bino, there is no way I would want to take the 7x50 Fujinon on a birdathon, walk-a-thon, or any other kind of thon. That, however, is NOT a comment on its QUALITY but its CONVENIENCE. :cat:

Cheers,

Bill

slingworks · Oct 3, 2019

Thanks for the replies gents.

I believe I may pick up the Zeiss, I know of a pair for sale. Fujinons...I've had a little experience with the US army Fujinon. It was ok, but not super...Perhaps the one I had was a dud? I would most certainly expect the FTMR to be a better brother.

I'd like to round out my bins to the porros I have on hand, adding some Trinovid BN 7x42s and this one last big bin.

Patudo · Oct 3, 2019

F88 said:
I have the FMTR 7x50, never used them for astronomy but occasionally use them for birding in particular circumstances but certainly agree that they definitely aren't suited to active birding. At around 1.5kg and IF they are never going to be a birding mainstay.
They do however tick all the boxes in question with a (reasonably) wide, sharp, bright view. All that bulk and weight has to account for something and I'd say the view is really good.

That's a big old unit for sure, F88! Have you noticed much/any chromatic aberration in your 7x FMTR in daytime viewing? I've asked the same question about the 10x model, and a couple of users have commented on there being too much perceived CA for their taste; I was wondering if the 7x version was better in this regard.

To the original poster... I'd look first at the job said large objective binoculars are intended to do, then decide on individual configuration/model/manufacturer. The ideal binocular for birding at deep dusk/dawn may not be ideal for stargazing, and may not be ideal for hunting either.

F88 · Oct 4, 2019

Patudo said:
That's a big old unit for sure, F88! Have you noticed much/any chromatic aberration in your 7x FMTR in daytime viewing? I've asked the same question about the 10x model, and a couple of users have commented on there being too much perceived CA for their taste; I was wondering if the 7x version was better in this regard.

To the original poster... I'd look first at the job said large objective binoculars are intended to do, then decide on individual configuration/model/manufacturer. The ideal binocular for birding at deep dusk/dawn may not be ideal for stargazing, and may not be ideal for hunting either.

You certainly know you have a pair of binoculars in your hands when using them. On that, they do however hold nicely with good balance with a large, comfortable handling area that's very steady.
Regarding CA, I'll check and update accordingly, but I can't think of any drama there. Unless I need to revise my post I'll say that there is no CA issues at all.
The view these things provide is quite exceptional, far exceeding it's price. Where you "pay" is in size/weight and IF but all this depends on perspective. As you say the ideal binocular for one thing.....
Long story short, daytime viewing is superb.

F88 · Oct 4, 2019

Trying to induce some CA on a hot, glary day and I just can't find any. Doing my best to peer into the corners and view things off axis with high contrast and not a peep of CA.
I think it's safe for me to say there's no CA to be found.

Update. I persevered in the name of science peering into the corners off axis at high contrast bright shiny things (distant roof tops) and may well have found a sliver of CA. I might add that most (all?) top level expensive roofs would handle much worse and I really had to search for it with the whole corners off axis thing so I'd still consider these to handle CA very well.

Binastro · Oct 4, 2019

On a bright day, the binocular might act as a 7x18, with a 2.5mm eye pupil.
f/11 objectives.
I wouldn't expect CA.

Maybe some on a cloudy day?

B.

F88 · Oct 4, 2019

Binastro said:
On a bright day, the binocular might act as a 7x18, with a 2.5mm eye pupil.
f/11 objectives.
I wouldn't expect CA.

Maybe some on a cloudy day?

B.

The conditions and silly viewing technique I used are generally a sure way to find CA in any binocular. I did try again later in the day when it came over a bit grey and could find nothing. Sure enough it's grey and over cast today, a contrast to the 32 degrees Celsius it got to yesterday, there's even a forecast for rain. I'll give it another go.
If I get super excited about it I'll do some side by side with my EDG 8x32 which is also excellent at handling CA but from memory, not better than the Fujinon.

So far under these conditions I can find no CA. Looks like it'll be grey for most if not all of the day so I'll check again once it brightens up even more but I have to say that the Fujinon handles CA extremely well.
Interestingly I looked at Allbinos and they give the Fujinon a 7 vs a 9 (out of 10 at handling CA) for the EDG which they also add "a standing ovation" or applause, something like that anyway. In that case I'd have to say the Fujinon should be on the podium right next to them if not a bit higher?

comparing big objective bins... (1 Viewer)

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