Should the RSPB start scanning RSPB membership cards at RSPB reserves? (1 Viewer)

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Aug 11, 2015

With both the Wildfowl Trust and the National Trust now scanning membership cards at reserves and property's, isn't it about time the RSPB started scanning RSPB's members, membership cards at RSPB reserves where non members pay an admission charge?
Ian.

Mark Lew1s · Aug 11, 2015

Farnboro John · Aug 11, 2015

Presumably because people are tight enough in this time of austerity, and other people who are members are sufficiently forgetful of the purpose of charity subscription to let them, colour copy membership cards and lie about who they are.

Shameful behaviour, but surely fairly minor quantity for RSPB, who offer considerable value for money? WWT has so few reserves that their subscription does seem extortionate, so I'm not entirely surprised they have an ongoing issue. Evidently they haven't the confidence to drop their price to the point where they attract enough extra custom to balance the books.

The National Trust are just a bunch of thieves.

John

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Aug 11, 2015

Farnboro John said:
Presumably because people are tight enough in this time of austerity, and other people who are members are sufficiently forgetful of the purpose of charity subscription to let them, colour copy membership cards and lie about who they are.

Shameful behaviour, but surely fairly minor quantity for RSPB, who offer considerable value for money? WWT has so few reserves that their subscription does seem extortionate, so I'm not entirely surprised they have an ongoing issue. Evidently they haven't the confidence to drop their price to the point where they attract enough extra custom to balance the books.

The National Trust are just a bunch of thieves.

John

Well I disagree with you about the National Trust, as they look after some of our most beautiful countryside, coastline, historical buildings and gardens etc. I joined as Life Member of the National Trust when Life Membership was only £100.00 and I've got great value from them and scanning of membership cards stops abuse happening. Which is why I think the RSPB should start scanning as well.
Ian.

Coronatus · Aug 11, 2015

Surely the cost/income ratio would negate any benefit from scanning?
Why not just ask for ID which would prevent the abuse of the minority? In the days of Photo driving licenses/Bus passes etc., that would surely work?

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Aug 11, 2015

Coronatus said:
Surely the cost/income ratio would negate any benefit from scanning?
Why not just ask for ID which would prevent the abuse of the minority? In the days of Photo driving licenses/Bus passes etc., that would surely work?

Well larger and smaller conservation charity's do this. So if they can, the RSPB should follow suit.
Ian.

Farnboro John · Aug 11, 2015

IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:
Well I disagree with you about the National Trust, as they look after some of our most beautiful countryside, coastline, historical buildings and gardens etc. I joined as Life Member of the National Trust when Life Membership was only £100.00 and I've got great value from them and scanning of membership cards stops abuse happening. Which is why I think the RSPB should start scanning as well.
Ian.

But the National Trust holds stuff in trust for the nation, and charges outrageous amounts for access to its holdings if you aren't a member (not to mention stupid opening hours at some of the more wildlife-friendly places.)

I believe members should obtain decent benefits for membership, but I don't believe that non-members should be ripped off. The RSPB actually charges fairly sensible amounts for non-members to visit its reserves. This is most likely why they don't think being scammed is a big issue, as for RSPB visitors its not worth the hassle of creating the cover.

The WWT and National Trust don't. The WWT has limited holdings and (possibly) either a problem with throughput meaning that they have to make their income from a known maximum number of visitors or a lack of belief that lower prices could attract sufficiently more.

The National Trust, I maintain, are a part of rip-off Britain. Their subs are high and their non-membership entry and parking charges are astronomical, which is why I haven't visited any of Britain's NT heritage sites in twenty-five years. Luckily, with that increasing distance, I've ceased to care about old buildings except for their potential as wildlife refuges. Knock it all down (or better, gut it all and let the bats have it.)

John

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Aug 11, 2015

Farnboro John said:
But the National Trust holds stuff in trust for the nation, and charges outrageous amounts for access to its holdings if you aren't a member (not to mention stupid opening hours at some of the more wildlife-friendly places.)

I believe members should obtain decent benefits for membership, but I don't believe that non-members should be ripped off. The RSPB actually charges fairly sensible amounts for non-members to visit its reserves. This is most likely why they don't think being scammed is a big issue, as for RSPB visitors its not worth the hassle of creating the cover.

The WWT and National Trust don't. The WWT has limited holdings and (possibly) either a problem with throughput meaning that they have to make their income from a known maximum number of visitors or a lack of belief that lower prices could attract sufficiently more.

The National Trust, I maintain, are a part of rip-off Britain. Their subs are high and their non-membership entry and parking charges are astronomical, which is why I haven't visited any of Britain's NT heritage sites in twenty-five years. Luckily, with that increasing distance, I've ceased to care about old buildings except for their potential as wildlife refuges. Knock it all down (or better, gut it all and let the bats have it.)

John

Yes and that's because historical buildings cost a lot of money to maintain and they are just as important along side birds and other wildlife. And I think the admission charges are fair for non members.
I would also like to see the RSPB charge for entrance to more of there reserves for non members as when I first joined the RSPB back in the early 1970's, the majority of the reserves had an entrance fee, unlike now and dispite having more reserves now in 2015, the majority have free entrance to reserves for non members than back in the 1970's when the majority had an entrance fee they had less reserves then back in the early 1970's.
Ian.

Nutcracker · Aug 11, 2015

Putting an entrance fee on a reserve means you have to pay someone to collect it - in most cases, their staff are better employed in management work than office work :t:

Mark Lew1s · Aug 11, 2015

And on every entry point too...

Not been to Minsmere in a long while but I'm sure there's more than one way onto the reserve. Probably the same at many others, too.

Coronatus · Aug 11, 2015

Ian.
I am back on the sheer logistics. Maybe the fees for non members were dropped simply because of the difficulties of collection?
I am an RSPB member, and not particularly proud of it, and visit the odd reserve when in Great Britain. Most are free to all comers and I wonder how many new members are gained from happy visitors who 'discover birds' during their visit.
Of the two that charge that I visit most regularly, Leighton Moss and Fairburn Ings, it is nigh on impossible to 'police' visitors and only those honest, or fool enough, to go through the gate end up paying. so your scanning would not make a happorth of difference. If folks want to cheat they can!
Again I and lots of other keen visitors like to get in at Sparrowphart and queuing at a turnstile is not an option.
This is not like paid entrance to NT and WWT places with 'office' hours.

Farnboro John · Aug 11, 2015

IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:
Yes and that's because historical buildings cost a lot of money to maintain and they are just as important along side birds and other wildlife. And I think the admission charges are fair for non members.
I would also like to see the RSPB charge for entrance to more of there reserves for non members as when I first joined the RSPB back in the early 1970's, the majority of the reserves had an entrance fee, unlike now and dispite having more reserves now in 2015, the majority have free entrance to reserves for non members than back in the 1970's when the majority had an entrance fee they had less reserves then back in the early 1970's.
Ian.

That's because the natural heritage of the country, developed over thousands and thousands of years, is off the chart more important than a bunch of old buildings that just encourage self-congratulatory navel-gazing by the human race. Clearly the RSPB recognises how vital it is to engage the nation with that thought, hence their outreaching practices rather than dog-in-manger clubby attitude and public rip-off. When I was young I thought of the NT as national guardians and part of us, but now frankly I think of them in the same box as the opera-goers whining that their spectacle should be funded by my taxes, instead of market forces as rock and roll is (rightly).

Hurrah for the RSPB!

John

Phil Andrews · Aug 11, 2015

How many RSPB reserves actually charge? As others have said I believe the logistics / costs out-weigh any additional income gained. How are we going to encourage more people to be interested in nature if we start charging for access at more reserves? Perhaps the RSPB should start clamping non-paying cars in Titchwell car park.....

trw · Aug 11, 2015

I don't want to sound holier than thou but it would be helpful if birdwatchers could join at least one organisation which supports birds and nature.Every little bit helps.
I was talking to a birdwatcher recently who doesn't support any group so he presumably sneaks into Leighton Moss for free-I know he goes there occasionally. There are some tightwads out there for sure.
There is a choice after all-WWT,RSPB,National Trust,Woodland Trust,BTO.
Personally I am a member of the local wildlife trust and the National Trust.Both are doing a wonderful job for birds locally.

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Aug 11, 2015

pratincol said:
I don't want to sound holier than thou but it would be helpful if birdwatchers could join at least one organisation which supports birds and nature.Every little bit helps.
I was talking to a birdwatcher recently who doesn't support any group so he presumably sneaks into Leighton Moss for free-I know he goes there occasionally. There are some tightwads out there for sure.
There is a choice after all-WWT,RSPB,National Trust,Woodland Trust,BTO.
Personally I am a member of the local wildlife trust and the National Trust.Both are doing a wonderful job for birds locally.

I'm a Life Member of both the RSPB and the National Trust and an annual member of the Wildfowl Trust and a local natural history group based in Newcastle Upon Tyne called The Natural History Society of Northumbria and also an active member of the Newcastle Upon Tyne RSPB Local Members Group.
Ian.

Mike Crawley · Aug 11, 2015

Fat Paul Scholes said:
And on every entry point too...

Not been to Minsmere in a long while but I'm sure there's more than one way onto the reserve. Probably the same at many others, too.

Was at Minsmere today, I was in for free but my non-birder friend had to pay £8. Would have been cheaper for him to walk along the beach and stroll through the open gate. The only thing he would have genuinely been excluded from would be the cafe and shop.

Don't remember ever having my NT, NWT or WWT card scanned

Keith Dickinson · Aug 11, 2015

On scanning membership cards, first thing would be all membership cards would need to be called in and a card with the correct QR code would need to be issued. Expensive

Each reserve that charges would need to invest in 1 or probably better 2 scanners. More expense

What would the RSPB gain - NOT MUCH - a load of names of paid up members who visit that reserve.

Would it stop abuse - NO - because cards with QR codes can be duplicated, all you have to remember is that both the original and the duplicate card most not visit the same reserve on the same day.

This last point is worth bearing in mind for the NT et al who now scan cards... n ot that I am condoning such reprehensible behaviour

Himalaya · Aug 11, 2015

Hi Mike

Do you not have a complimentary card so if a person goes with you they can go for free?

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Aug 11, 2015

Himalaya said:
Hi Mike

Do you not have a complimentary card so if a person goes with you they can go for free?

As a Life Member and if you live on your own like myself and you haven't got a husband or wife, when you would get 2 Life Membership cards, you get an additional card to admit 1 guest for life as well as yourself the Life Member.
Ian.

Zheljko · Aug 11, 2015

Mike C said:
Was at Minsmere today, I was in for free but my non-birder friend had to pay £8. Would have been cheaper for him to walk along the beach and stroll through the open gate. The only thing he would have genuinely been excluded from would be the cafe and shop.

Keith Dickinson said:
On scanning membership cards, first thing would be all membership cards would need to be called in and a card with the correct QR code would need to be issued. Expensive
Each reserve that charges would need to invest in 1 or probably better 2 scanners. More expense

It all depends on whether there is a fence (like that on the Hungarian border). If one can just walk in, the whole thing is useless.
(Mike's example reminds me of the Book Fair in our city several years ago, where people bragged openly on Internet how they just walked along the river around the fair building, instead of going through the main gate. One said that they actually did have paid day tickets but decided to walk along the river before going to the book fair and in doing so they suddenly came to the entrance of the building and walked in with tickets unchecked; after the visit they donated the unused tickets to some random college students outside. Next year the Book Fair people wisened up of course and now there is a fence around the building at all sides)

But once there is a fence and a gate, scanning of cards is easy. Cards are scanned everywhere: credit/debit cards in stores, "bus plus" cards in our city buses. The scanner must be quite inexpensive or there would not be so many scanners everywhere.

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