Scope with fixed eyepieces (1 Viewer)

We looked at Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski zooms. The Leica had the best eye relief throughout the viewing range, but still not enough for my tastes. If zoom eyepieces were the only choice on the planet, I'd pick the Swarovski ATS 80mm ED with the 20-60 zoom. It is a superbly designed birding tool.

We’ve narrowed the choice to:

Nikon Fieldscope 82mm AN ED
30X DS eyepiece
50X DS eyepiece

Swarovski ATS 80mm ED
30X eyepiece
45X eyepiece

Allow me to state a few preferences:
We want a view on the order of the Nikon SE.
Price is not a determining factor.
We’ll need a low and high magnification eyepiece; a zoom is not an option for higher magnification.
Helical focus is preferred.

John

John Traynor said:

We looked at Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski zooms. The Leica had the best eye relief throughout the viewing range, but still not enough for my tastes. If zoom eyepieces were the only choice on the planet, I'd pick the Swarovski ATS 80mm ED with the 20-60 zoom. It is a superbly designed birding tool.

We’ve narrowed the choice to:

Nikon Fieldscope 82mm AN ED
30X DS eyepiece
50X DS eyepiece

Swarovski ATS 80mm ED
30X eyepiece
45X eyepiece

Allow me to state a few preferences:
We want a view on the order of the Nikon SE.
Price is not a determining factor.
We’ll need a low and high magnification eyepiece; a zoom is not an option for higher magnification.
Helical focus is preferred.

John

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John when testing a fixed eyepiece as in the case of the 30x 45x Swarvoski eye pieces,is not the light ie cloudy overcast etc,an important feature in the use of these as against a 20x60 zoom?.

Pop

POP said:

John when testing a fixed eyepiece as in the case of the 30x 45x Swarvoski eye pieces,is not the light ie cloudy overcast etc,an important feature in the use of these as against a 20x60 zoom?.

Pop

Click to expand...

Pop,

I'm looking at fixed eyepieces based on their usable eye relief. The three zooms I inspected (Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss) simply don't do the job for me. Brightness should not be an issue.

John

Ok John thank you.

POP

John,

The quality of the particular specimen you buy is going to matter more than whether you pick Nikon or Swarovski. I've read believable reports of 1/8-1/10 wave Nikon scopes. The image quality of a scope with optics that good is limited only by its aperture. Unfortunately I don't think very many Nikon scopes are that good. An average specimen of one of the expensive birding scopes might be closer to 1/4-1/5 wave. I've found the difference in image quality between 1/5 wave and 1/8 wave to be visible even at 30X.

I hesitate to bring up the subject again, but star testing is the only way to quickly and reliably establish how well corrected a particular telescope is, and to detect defects like astigmatism or pinched optics. It requires some research to learn how to do it. Googling something like "telescope star test" should get you to some instructions and photos or simulations of what to look for. I'd try to arrange to star test a scope with an artificial star at the store before you buy it. If that is not possible it should be done immediately with a newly purchased scope to check for defects.

Henry

P.S. I hesitated to bring up the subject of star testing because I know some people find it difficult to do. There are pitfalls in setting up the test and interpreting the results, but if you can master it you will never need to worry about buying a defective or just mediocre scope specimen. For those who don't want to bother with it, evaluate the image quality at the highest magnification in still air at a relatively short distance, maybe 10-30m. Low magnifications can look OK even if the scope has problems. A high quality 80mm scope shouldn't begin to lose sharpness until about 40x. 60x should look almost as sharp as 40X and show more detail.

John Traynor said:

We want a view on the order of the Nikon SE.

Click to expand...

John,

Both scopes should produce most satisfying "walk-in" views. Although I slightly prefer the Swaro 30x over the Nikon 30x (more ER and IMO slightly better edge sharpness... Steve/scampo may disagree on this :hi: ) , the image of the Nikon scopes is IMO very closely related to their binoculars - especially the SE & HG). The colours of the Swaro are colder (bluish) than with your SEs and you may notice it if you switch between the binoculars and the scope. Not many find this disturbing though.

One shortcoming with the Nikon is that you won't have an option of getting a 20x wide-angle, which is a very nice eyepiece for some extra-wide-angled birding, astro-use or digiscoping (the eye-relief of this ep may be on the limit for you, however). The 45/50x eyepieces are optically very good, but IMHO they don't offer THAT much more magnification than the 30x. If you know definitely when you are going to need higher powers the 45/50x's are OK, but if you plan to switch them during viewing it is quite a hassle. Have you considered a 2-3x booster/extender which could be put on the eyepiece? It would give you significantly more power, without having to expose those "internal" glass surfaces to possible dirt and moisture.

One point for you to test could be aiming of the scope. The Nikon eyepiece is horizontally slightly offset (to the right) from the "tube axis", whereas the Swaro eyepiece is quite high above this axis. Both are IMO less than optimally placed. See which one is easier for you to find targets from a distance.

Best of luck,

Ilkka

iporali said:

John,

Both scopes should produce most satisfying "walk-in" views. Although I slightly prefer the Swaro 30x over the Nikon 30x (more ER and IMO slightly better edge sharpness... Steve/scampo may disagree on this :hi: ) , the image of the Nikon scopes is IMO very closely related to their binoculars - especially the SE & HG). The colours of the Swaro are colder (bluish) than with your SEs and you may notice it if you switch between the binoculars and the scope. Not many find this disturbing though.

One shortcoming with the Nikon is that you won't have an option of getting a 20x wide-angle, which is a very nice eyepiece for some extra-wide-angled birding, astro-use or digiscoping (the eye-relief of this ep may be on the limit for you, however). The 45/50x eyepieces are optically very good, but IMHO they don't offer THAT much more magnification than the 30x. If you know definitely when you are going to need higher powers the 45/50x's are OK, but if you plan to switch them during viewing it is quite a hassle. Have you considered a 2-3x booster/extender which could be put on the eyepiece? It would give you significantly more power, without having to expose those "internal" glass surfaces to possible dirt and moisture.

One point for you to test could be aiming of the scope. The Nikon eyepiece is horizontally slightly offset (to the right) from the "tube axis", whereas the Swaro eyepiece is quite high above this axis. Both are IMO less than optimally placed. See which one is easier for you to find targets from a distance.

Best of luck,

Ilkka

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Henry,

Thanks for the comments. I will test whatever I buy to the best of my ability.


Ilkka,

Thank you for your insights. The Swaro color is fine with me and the 17mm eye relief at 20X on the zoom was perfect.

I've never seen a 2X or 3X booster for a spotting scope, so I'm not sure what you're talking about in that regard.

I'll be in touch!

John

John Traynor said:

I've never seen a 2X or 3X booster for a spotting scope, so I'm not sure what you're talking about in that regard.

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It's one of these

Universal Tele Adaptor

John,

Swarovski has a 2x "doubler" http://www.opticsplanet.net/swarboosbind.html which seems to be aimed mainly for binocular use, but should work with scope eyepieces too. The Zeiss 3x12 monocular http://www.opticsplanet.net/zeiss-3x12b-classic-series-tripler-x-monocular.html is quite popular, but if it is used with a 30x eyepiece the image cannot be called very bright. Eagle Optics seems to sell a very similar 2.5x13 booster as Opticron (http://www.opticsplanet.net/eagle-optics-binocular-extender.html).

I have an old Swaro zoom and a new 20xSW and the zoom at 20x has more "effective" eye-relief than the fixed (the ER of the 20xSW is barely enough for me - but not for my Nikon CP4500). The published ER values don't always seem to be measured the same way.

Ilkka

I have the old Swarovsi 30x and 20-60x zoom and I preferred the 30x for digiscoping due to it's ER and quality. I'm using the new 20-60x zoom now but will be buying the new 30x soon as it's longer ER means less vingetting in the camera and it's a very sharp eyepiece. As I wear glasses ER is important to me for viewing as well. Neil.

iporali said:

John,

Both scopes should produce most satisfying "walk-in" views. Although I slightly prefer the Swaro 30x over the Nikon 30x (more ER and IMO slightly better edge sharpness... Steve/scampo may disagree on this :hi: ) , the image of the Nikon


Ilkka

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I wouldn't disagree with an expert of your standing, Ilkka... I do believe that nothing matches the Nikon for overall view in terms of natualness of colours, brightness and contrast. I prefer the Zeiss zoom, but the Nikon's faithfulness is, I reckon, unique to their design. What is good is that they carry this quality through all of their products (in their top range, at least).

The Swaro is, undoubtedly, a delight to use as a scope - silky smooth and ergonomically pleasing. Its optics are at the top but not, I believe, unique in any way that matters to me. That said, a Swaro with a 30x is still a real delight to use.