Connecticut USA Greater or Lesser yellowlegs? (1 Viewer)

lvn600 · Aug 9, 2008

Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad that it is not a Greater Yellowlegs. I say that because I want to get to the point where I am confident about separating the two. If it turned out to be a greater, I would be more confused.-I can recall how aggressively the greaters moved and stalked and lunged for their food-The lesser was much more casual in its feeding. They still moved around but in a more casual manner. Now that I went back to find the picture of the greater which I took earlier in the spring, I can see a big difference between the two.-Here are comparison photos.

The one on the left clearly seems heavier bodied and longer billed indicating a Greater Yellowlegs. The one on the right does seem leaner and shorter billed than the one on the right -so Lesser Yellowlegs would make sense to me.-It seems that when I see a Greater Yellowlegs I am pretty certain of it.-When I see a lesser is when the confusion seems to set in.-

It reminds me of when I first started birding and wasn't sure of the difference between a Downy and a Hairy Woodpecker.-When I saw a downy, I might wonder if it was a hairy but when I actually saw a Hairy WP-it seemed so obvious.

edit-Tero-That was funny that you came up with the example of the Downy versus Hairy just before I had a chance to post it myself!

Jim M. · Aug 10, 2008

Motmot said:
I wouldn't put my money on tertial/scapular pattern or primary projection or bill shape/size after watching carefully Jan's good links, but certainly would put it on Bob's #5. The bird is simply too slim/small bodied to be a Greater.

I would agree with that. I was reporting my first impression just before retiring, and failed to focus on that aspect (as well as the doubts Larry expressed in his original post). Jan's links do show excellent examples of just how much variation there is within each species in terms of bill length and other factors. Some greaters are obviously so, as well as some lessers, but individual variation does create more confusing birds, especially when overall size cannot be judged in photographs. But they also show that Greater can look to have a fairly delicate build in some postures.

I just got the Collins Guide to the birds of Europe. I noticed that it differs with Sibleys and other North American guides in some respects. It suggests that the Greater can be differentiated based upon the stouter and more upturned bill. Sibley on the other hand simply notes that the greater's bill "usually appears slightly upturned". I agree with Sibley; I do not think a straight bill is a reliable indicator -- and I think that shows in the photographs Jan linked to. I also do not think the greater's bill reliably appears more stout on a relative basis (though it is obviously on an absolute basis) than Lesser; so if you cannot judge size, I do not think that will be much help. Neither Collins nor Sibley (nor my dedicated shorebird guide by O'Brien, et al.) make any reference to tertial/scapular pattern or primary projection in distinguishing the species.

Best,
Jim

JANJ · Aug 10, 2008

J. Moore said:
I would agree with that. I was reporting my first impression just before retiring, and failed to focus on that aspect (as well as the doubts Larry expressed in his original post). Jan's links do show excellent examples of just how much variation there is within each species in terms of bill length and other factors. Some greaters are obviously so, as well as some lessers, but individual variation does create more confusing birds, especially when overall size cannot be judged in photographs. But they also show that Greater can look to have a fairly delicate build in some postures.

I just got the Collins Guide to the birds of Europe. I noticed that it differs with Sibleys and other North American guides in some respects. It suggests that the Greater can be differentiated based upon the stouter and more upturned bill. Sibley on the other hand simply notes that the greater's bill "usually appears slightly upturned". I agree with Sibley; I do not think a straight bill is a reliable indicator -- and I think that shows in the photographs Jan linked to. I also do not think the greater's bill reliably appears more stout on a relative basis (though it is obviously on an absolute basis) than Lesser; so if you cannot judge size, I do not think that will be much help. Neither Collins nor Sibley (nor my dedicated shorebird guide by O'Brien, et al.) make any reference to tertial/scapular pattern or primary projection in distinguishing the species.

Best,
Jim

I agree with Jim,s reflections on the bill size. It´s however interesting to note how easy everything gets when the two are seen together, when you can practically ignore plumage features and consentrate on bill shape/size and JIZZ. Regardless of what´s said in the beginng of this note, bill size and shape are rather constant in these two, but as noted some Lesser shows longer bills than avarage while some Greaters almost lack any sign of an upturned bill, as well as some looking surprisingly thin at the bill base.

JanJ

BobTag · Aug 10, 2008

Hi all,

It's interesting to see that the discussion has turned to reflect on some individual points I made earlier. Eduardo, a case for using primary projection and length of tail/wings was made in a Birding World article, last year if I recall following a vagrant Greater Yellowlegs in Lincs, UK.

I agree with a lot of what has been written; there is overlap in some features between the species, such as bill shape. However, this does not take into account the whole bird; jizz rather than the New Approach. On this I agree with Jan; they are rather distinctive species.

Take this bird, and add up the 'sum of the parts'; it has the bill of a Lesser AND the primary projection/wing&tail length of a Lesser AND the breast streaking/pattern of a Lesser AND the jizz/strucutre of a Lesser.

Whilst each point could be considered variable or even ambiguous, taken together they show a distincitve Lesser Yellowlegs.

BobTag

Jim M. · Aug 10, 2008

BobTag said:
a case for using primary projection and length of tail/wings was made in a Birding World article, last year if I recall following a vagrant Greater Yellowlegs in Lincs, UK.

Thanks for the info Bob. :t: If anyone knows of a detailed discussion of these features available on the Internet, I would be interested.

Best,
Jim

Connecticut USA Greater or Lesser yellowlegs? (1 Viewer)

More options

lvn600

Well-known member

Attachments

Jim M.

Member since 2007

JANJ

Well-known member

BobTag

Guest

Jim M.

Member since 2007

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread