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Non-original question: Sharpie or Coop? (1 Viewer)

M

montanawildlives

Well-known member
Here are a few pictures that I think are either Sharpies or Cooper's hawks...would love some direction. The first three are the same bird at the same time. Also, if you don't mind a brief description of how you reached your conclusions (e.g., the lack of a "capped" look made me think Sharpie, the white undertail coverts (?) made me think Sharpie, etc.).

Thanks!
 

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The last two are Cooper's, very strong, powerful looking birds. Very strong tallons. First three I'm not sure of, but comparing to the last two I'm leaning towards Sharp-shinned, but then again, those are males and the last two are females....
 
Last photo is a definite cooper's: outermost tail feathers markedly shorter than the others.

That's the only photo that shows a safe diagnostic feature. The first set of three probably shows enough "cappiness"/"napiness" to make a guess, in conjunction with head proportion (eye size vs beak), but I personally wouldn't be confident.

The first set of three shows an adult, the last two are immature. I can't tell the sex of these birds and I doubt nbalbas can either.

PS on the second-to-last shot, what's the prey? Ordinary pigeon? Knowing the size of the hawk should help, though there can be some overlap.
 
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Thanks you two. The prey in the second to last shot is (was) a Eurasian collard dove. (probably the same size as a pigeon). I'm pretty confident in saying that the last two birds were significantly larger than the bird in the first three pictures, especially the one in the fifth photo. And, now that we put the dove in context, that fourth picture also seems to show a larger hunter. So at this point I'm in agreement that the first bird is a sharpie and the last two are Cooper's. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.
 
The best way to distinguish between them is size, according to Wheeler in his "Raptors of North America." In my experience this is true.

Both of them are common in and around my wooded back yard year round and I have seen them often and they are not hard to tell apart if you see enough of them.

They do not overlap in size. Cooper's are always larger and more bulky.

But it is difficult to do this with most photographs.

Comparing the size of the Tarsii of the bird in picture #1 to the branches and reeds where it is perched very likely shows a Sharp-shin. Most probably a female because in real life a male Sharp-shin is hardly as large as Blue Jay.

I've seen male Sharp-shins in spring in my back yard and the one really impressive feature they have are their long razor sharp talons which are attached to soda straw sized tarsii. I have seen them fly to another perch on a neighbor's fence about 100' away and puff up their feathers so they look twice as big as they did before.

In photo #5 one can make the argument that it is a Coopers Hawk by comparing the size of its Tarsii to the branch it is perched on.

Bob
 
Bird #1. Sharpie (dark nape, thinnish legs, squared-off tail)
Bird #2. Coop (thickish legs, prey size)
Bird #3. Coop (thickish legs, short outer tail feathers)
 
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1. Sharp-shinned Hawk (rounded head; nape contrasts with cheeks)
2-3. Sharp-shinned Hawk (nape same shade of gray as crown; rounded head; smaller beak)
4. Immature Sharp-shinned Hawk (thin legs; reddish, blotchy streaking)
5. Immature Cooper's Hawk (shorter outer tail feathers; thicker legs; serious facial expression)
 
fugl said:
Bird #1. Sharpie (dark nape, thinnish legs, squared-off tail)
Bird #2. Coop (thickish legs, prey size)
Bird #3. Coop (thickish legs, short outer tail feathers)
Click to expand...

Agreed, though the second bird had me fooled for a bit with the underpart pattern. Prey size gives it away for me!

I recently watched a Cooper's Hawk successfully catch a Belted Kingfisher, about the same size as a collared dove.
 
One problem is the second sentence in the first post. It says that the 1st 3 pictures are of the same bird. In any case, the 3 birds are fully mature accipiters. I think based on that statement that all three are the same Sharp-shin. It looks like it is taking a bath.

Another problem are birds #4 and #5. They are immature accipiters but they have different colored irises. #4 has an orange iris and #5's is pale gray. I think that they are both Cooper's Hawks based on their large tarsii displayed on the prey in #4 and compared with the size of the branch that #5 is perched on.

The Canadian Peregrine Foundation has good articles about identifying Sharp-shinned Hawks and Cooper's Hawks and other Birds of Prey. Note the comparison of the sizes of Sharp-shins, Cooper's, Goshawks and Peregrine Falcons in the table at the bottom of the article.

http://www.peregrine-foundation.ca/raptors/Sharpshinned.html

Bob
 
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Caesar, this is the second time you've mentioned the size of the branch. How do you know the size of the branch?
 
They may not overlap, but based on the table in the link provided, the difference in length between a large female Sharp-shinned and a small male Cooper's is only three millimeters (less than a 1/8 inch). That is not field useful. The long outer rectrix (has a whote edge), very small head, and more barred look to the underparts look like Sharp-shinned Hawk.

Andy
 
nartreb said:
Caesar, this is the second time you've mentioned the size of the branch. How do you know the size of the branch?
Click to expand...

I don't. You have to have a frame of reference when using size and clearly the Tarsii on that bird are large and it is a big bulky bird. Quite unlike the bird in the first frame which is a Sharp-shin. If you have a copy of one of Wheeler's Raptor's of North America series you can see photographs of both Sharp-shins and Coopers perched on branches of that size and the differences in the sizes of their tarsii are quite evident.

As I pointed out the problems we have in identifying them here are because they are photos of the birds. In real life they aren't as hard to identify.
 
Kratter said:
They may not overlap, but based on the table in the link provided, the difference in length between a large female Sharp-shinned and a small male Cooper's is only three millimeters (less than a 1/8 inch). That is not field useful. The long outer rectrix (has a whote edge), very small head, and more barred look to the underparts look like Sharp-shinned Hawk.

Andy
Click to expand...

Look at the difference in their weights in the chart, Andy. A female Sharp-shin weighs about 1/2 what a Male Cooper's Hawk weighs. A female Cooper's is about 3 times as heavy as a female Sharp-shin. They are bigger birds.

Bob
 
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Normally I don´t have to separate these two, only have Eurasian Sparrowhawk and Goshawk to separate, but going on size and structure and the tail characteristics of the last bird ,

I´d say bird 1-3 is sharpshinned, bird 4 also,

but bird 5 is Coopers.

Prey in 4. looks like collared dove , which is a bit more slender than feral Rock pigeon.
 
I'm still uncertain whether the bird in #4 is a large juvenile female Sharp-shin or a small juvenile male Cooper's Hawk. I know I said I thought it was a Cooper's in post #10 but I am wavering. It has a small round shaped head.

Bob
 
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Four is a Sharp-shinned for me as well – I've never seen a juvenile Cooper's with breast streaks so dense and rufous.
 
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