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HD vs HD plus

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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 01:19   #1
dries1
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HD vs HD plus

I have a chance to look at a 8X42 HD 20093 NIB? and wonder if the HD plus is really that much better. It is from an authorized Leica dealer so the warranty is a plus.

A.W.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 02:01   #2
ceasar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
I have a chance to look at a 8X42 HD 20093 NIB? and wonder if the HD plus is really that much better. It is from an authorized Leica dealer so the warranty is a plus.

A.W.
I don't think that I would see the difference but maybe you could.

The information below about the Ultravid HD (not the HD+) is from the "Company 7" website information about Leica Binoculars

"ULTRAVID HD series introduced in 2007 incorporates internal and coatings improvements. The exteriors were unchanged and the basic specifications (magnification, field of view, etc.) similarly remained the same so these appear at first glance identical to the original ULTRAVID models. The improvements provided with the HD address the focusing mechanism. And the optical design of the HD were refined with newly available Fluoride glass technology, and then were treated with advanced contrast and resistance coatings to repel water and dirt with the new AquaDuraTM process.

Leica AquaDuraTM ensures greater visibility in wind and rain

Leica AquaDura (32,870 bytes) It is a cold morning and the lens fogs up - that is not much fun. Fingerprints, dust and rain are also annoying when viewing. The innovative Leica AquaDuraTM coating considerably reduces these disturbing factors. Imitating nature as with the lotus plant, this new water and dirt-resistant protective layer on the outer glass surfaces ensures that dirt and moisture are barely able to take hold on the specially adapted surface structure of the optic."

http://www.company7.com/leica/binoculars.html

There are no comments about the Ultravid HD+ versions.

Bob

Last edited by ceasar : Sunday 11th February 2018 at 02:12.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 03:21   #3
dries1
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Thanks Bob for the info, for me the only way for me to see the difference, I would have to view both, but at the price and with the Leica passport and other warranty perks, I feel it would be wise for me to go with it, as another premium 8X42 glass. I have an old Leitz 7X35 given to me from a older relative I that needs cleaning, I am hoping that it can be done here in the states. This will be my first time spent with a modern Leica glass not including looking through them in a store, I have a few Older Kern Aarau porros also.

A.W.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 04:03   #4
NDhunter
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Andy:

There are some Leica threads about the HD+ model when it first came out.

You could go back and do some reading on those. I have the 8x42 HD and it is
a very nice binocular, I wish you were closer I would let you try it out.

Jerry
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 07:28   #5
Canip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
I have a chance to look at a 8X42 HD 20093 NIB? and wonder if the HD plus is really that much better. It is from an authorized Leica dealer so the warranty is a plus.

A.W.
In my experience and for my eyes, the difference is minimal, if any.

A while ago, I even had a group of six people do a „blind study“, comparing the 8x32 HD and 8x32 HD Plus side by side with the „HD“ sign covered so the two binos would look exactly the same. The HD was named the better bino as many times as the HD Plus (I reported the results on a German optics forum).

I also have the Ultravid 7x42 in both HD and HD Plus, and again, the difference is minimal, if recognizable at all.

My personal view: the improvement of the HD Plus over the HD does not show in „normal use“. So you would not regret buying the HD version; as Jerry mentioned, it is a very nice bino.

Canip

Last edited by Canip : Sunday 11th February 2018 at 07:32.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 12:49   #6
dries1
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Canip,

Now that is a test that can really show accurate results since physically there is no difference, no one could tell the difference beforehand visually or by feel/grip. So it seems the difference is indeed minimal.

A.W.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 12:54   #7
dries1
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Leica HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
Andy:

There are some Leica threads about the HD+ model when it first came out.

You could go back and do some reading on those. I have the 8x42 HD and it is
a very nice binocular, I wish you were closer I would let you try it out.

Jerry
Jerry,

Thanks for the offer. Monday I will be checking a Brand new sample. Nothing but rain here in the Northeast.

A.W.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 13:53   #8
ceasar
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Well, down the line we will know that an HD+ is not as old as an HD is; FWIW.


Bob
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 14:48   #9
james holdsworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canip View Post
In my experience and for my eyes, the difference is minimal, if any.

A while ago, I even had a group of six people do a „blind study“, comparing the 8x32 HD and 8x32 HD Plus side by side with the „HD“ sign covered so the two binos would look exactly the same. The HD was named the better bino as many times as the HD Plus (I reported the results on a German optics forum).

I also have the Ultravid 7x42 in both HD and HD Plus, and again, the difference is minimal, if recognizable at all.

My personal view: the improvement of the HD Plus over the HD does not show in „normal use“. So you would not regret buying the HD version; as Jerry mentioned, it is a very nice bino.

Canip
Depends on who the 6 people are...my wife can't tell the difference between a Terra and an HT
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 15:23   #10
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not to mention the HD+ might have qualities that only show themselves better than original HD in unique situations...like backlit, lowight, ect....what improved qualities does Leica claim for the + model???
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 16:29   #11
dries1
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Hd /hd+

Quote:
Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
Depends on who the 6 people are...my wife can't tell the difference between a Terra and an HT
James,

Good point, my wife is the same. The other day she asks me what are all those boxes on the shelf in your office (stashed binos), I say they are parts to my pickup truck.

A.W.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 16:58   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
James,

Good point, my wife is the same. The other day she asks me what are all those boxes on the shelf in your office (stashed binos), I say they are parts to my pickup truck.

A.W.


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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 17:15   #13
jan van daalen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunut View Post
not to mention the HD+ might have qualities that only show themselves better than original HD in unique situations...like backlit, lowight, ect....what improved qualities does Leica claim for the + model???
The testresults from Gijs show an improvement of 2-3% of the lighttransmission over the full spectrum, probably caused by the use of HT glass in the prisms of the HD+.
Leica mentions an improved Aquadura plasma coating, something which can't be checked.

Only personal preferences decides wether the price difference between the HD and the current HD+ is worth the buy.
Again: try before you buy

Jan
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Old Monday 26th February 2018, 21:44   #14
Tobias Mennle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
The testresults from Gijs show an improvement of 2-3% of the lighttransmission over the full spectrum, probably caused by the use of HT glass in the prisms of the HD+.
Leica mentions an improved Aquadura plasma coating, something which can't be checked.

Only personal preferences decides wether the price difference between the HD and the current HD+ is worth the buy.
Again: try before you buy

Jan
As far as I remember Gijs did NOT find a significant difference in transmission between HD and HD+... much to my dismay. Any links to that publication, Jan?

Anyway the HD+ coatings are magical.

I found the 8x32HD+ to differ from the 8x42HD+ in color and brightness even in bright daylight. 8x32 redder and much darker. Maybe they just relabeled an existing batch of 8x32 HDs... ... a bit of extra red colour was all that was needed.
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Old Tuesday 27th February 2018, 18:45   #15
Gijs van Ginkel
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Tobias,
I measured a transmission difference between the HD and the HD plus of 2-3% for the 8x32 and the 8x42. It is published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
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Old Friday 2nd March 2018, 06:26   #16
Tobias Mennle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Tobias,
I measured a transmission difference between the HD and the HD plus of 2-3% for the 8x32 and the 8x42. It is published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
Thanks Gijs, found it. For those interested: http://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrek...n-vergelijken/

Very valuable transmission analyses.

- Generally, what would the margin of error be in those measurements?

The HD+ is probably significantly brighter in the 8x42, but I very much doubt it´s a real let alone visible difference in the 8x32s which is disappointing and fits well with my observation and also Canip´s which he published in a German forum.
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Old Friday 2nd March 2018, 08:43   #17
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Tobias, post 16,
The error in our transmission measurements is +/-0,5%.
Gijs van Ginkel
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Old Friday 2nd March 2018, 09:47   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias Mennle View Post
.....
.....
.....
The HD+ is probably significantly brighter in the 8x42, but I very much doubt it´s a real let alone visible difference in the 8x32s which is disappointing and fits well with my observation and also Canip´s which he published in a German forum.
I have been wondering about that for some time. In the 7x42, the difference appears also minimal for my eyes.

If you anticipate the difference in the 8x42 to be more significant, could that indicate that the combination of higher magnification AND larger objective diameter makes the difference more visible ?
Why ?
If yes, it would mean that in the format 8x50 (Leica is one of tha last ones selling this size), the difference should be quite clearly recognizable (I have the HD in that size and have been thinking about comparing it to an HD + for some time, but then left the issue alone because of the experience with the 8x32).

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Old Friday 2nd March 2018, 09:57   #19
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canip, post 18,
The transmission increase is slighly higher for the HD-plus 8x42 as it is for the HD-plus 8x32, which can be explained by the slightly smaller increase in measured transmission for the 8x32 HD-plus. I do not know how Leica managed to realise this tranbsmission increase for the HD-plus compared to the HD.
It has been stated that the use of HT optical glass in the HD-plus could be responsible for this transmission rise. If that is the case the difference in optical pathlength between the 8x32HD-plus and the 8x42HD-plus may be responsible for the differences in transmission increase between the 8x42HD-plus and the 8x32HD-plus. This is speculation but I am open for other explanations.
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Old Friday 2nd March 2018, 16:42   #20
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I have compared, side by side for several hours, all three of the BR/HD/HD+ and found the view practically identical and, if asked to differentiate them without seeing the logos, I'm not sure my eyes could have done this.
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Old Friday 2nd March 2018, 19:32   #21
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My experience with various Leica HD/HD+ models is the same as Jremmons's. I couldn't reliably differentiate between them with visual comparison. When I know which is which, I can convince myself that I see a small difference, but would not dare to make a bet that I could tell them apart without external cues.

Sample differences in aberration levels can, however, cause the image of one binocular to be clearer and purer to enough of a degree that the difference becomes reliably recognisable, and that means more to me than slight transmission differences.

Kimmo
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Old Saturday 3rd March 2018, 21:51   #22
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Gijs (post # 19),
thank you. Yes, that may be a valid explanation.
Kimmo‘s and jremmons’ experiences and your transmission measurements confirm my (and my test group‘s) experience that the difference is almost not, if at all, perceptible with the eye, so I think (no offense intended) that those reports that indicated a recognizable difference in brightness and/ or sharpness between HD and HD+, were in fact based on the „when I know which is which“ situation described by Kimmo.
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Old Sunday 4th March 2018, 04:00   #23
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From page 1 of of a 6-page (presently) thread on the Uv.+ 7x42 begun Dec. 2015. [Link]
8x42:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torview View Post
...In direct comparison between HD and HD+, the latter has noticeably less CA, the image looks sharper with more micro contrast and sparkle, it looks cleaner, almost "washed clean", and shows more detail in shadowy areas.

It also looks brighter, which makes sense given the transmission increase...
7x42:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Frink View Post
I found the same results with my 7x42 HD+ compared to a non-HD 7x42. It's hard to explain, but the HD+ image just feels brighter, cleaner, with amazing detail in the shadows. Both are great, but the HD+ wins every time...
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Old Sunday 4th March 2018, 07:48   #24
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FWIW, I briefly compared the HD to the plus when it was first launched and would agree with Torview and John Frink. A clear difference, and an improvement for me. I was told at the time that it was only a coating upgrade.

I think we need to keep in mind that there is significant variation in individual eyesight, including colour discrimination, and it would be quite remarkable if we did agree.

David
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Old Sunday 4th March 2018, 09:05   #25
Gijs van Ginkel
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Canip, post 22,
I have only investigated the 8x32HD and HD-plus and the 8x42HD and HD-plus, but what I could see with my eyes is a slightly better performance at lower light levels of the 8x42HD-plus (observed it before measuring transmission spectra) and my observations were actually confirmed by the transmission measurements, since the improvement in transmission is roughly 3% in the blue part of the spectrum, whereas it is smaller in the other part of the spectrum.
With the 8x32HD and HD-plus I could not see these differences although I tried very hard. Perhaps a slightly better performance at lower light levels is what Leica had in mind when it introduced the HD-plus series, but our facilities for mind reading recently broke down, so we could not check that.
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