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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 12:28   #26
Mike F
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Well, I suppose it's possible that Leica make everything in Portugal and then send the Ultravids and Noctivids to Germany for some final finishing so that they can say that they're made in Germany, but if they are bothering to do that, why not also do the same for the Trinovids?
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 12:49   #27
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Lee, I edited my post yesterday because after re-reading your first post above I was sure that you must be talking only about the Trinovids, but clearly you're not (in which case my original understanding wasn't being affected by the Laphroaig!).

My Ultravids and Noctivids both clearly say 'Made in Germany' on them and, although I haven't checked, I'm pretty sure the Guarantee and inspection certificates also say 'Leica Germany'. It's always been my understanding that the Ultravids (and now also Noctivids) were made in Germany, and that the Trinovids of all generations up to the present one, including all the BCA's, were made in Portugal. My understanding of the present Trinovid HD is that the parts are sourced in the far East but assembled (to the extend necessary to print 'Made in........' on them) in Portugal.

Do enlighten us if you come across different information.

Michael.
Laphroaig is towards the medicinal end of Islay malts, to my taste but I would still choose it rather than a Strathspey! If I had to choose then I would go for Bunnahabhain.

I appreciate the Made in Germany markings and I am very open to being proved wrong about this. And I think you sum up Trinovid HD correctly and by way we own two Trinovid HD 8x32s and my wife treasures her Ultravid HD 8x32.

Lee
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 12:53   #28
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Maybe just receiving completed units followed by inspection, Q.C. and certificated before being shipped out from Wetzlar to retailers worldwide.
I'm sure only Swarovski remain as carrying out their own in house assembly at their premises.
Not entirely correct as Zeiss continue to manufacture and assemble in Wetzar. See the interview with Joerg Schmitz on the Zeiss forum. And there have been rumours that Meopta has occasionally made stuff for Swaro as they have for Leica and Zeiss, although rumours are by no means always correct.

Lee
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 14:31   #29
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Lee, I edited my post yesterday because after re-reading your first post above I was sure that you must be talking only about the Trinovids, but clearly you're not (in which case my original understanding wasn't being affected by the Laphroaig!).

My Ultravids and Noctivids both clearly say 'Made in Germany' on them and, although I haven't checked, I'm pretty sure the Guarantee and inspection certificates also say 'Leica Germany'. It's always been my understanding that the Ultravids (and now also Noctivids) were made in Germany, and that the Trinovids of all generations up to the present one, including all the BCA's, were made in Portugal. My understanding of the present Trinovid HD is that the parts are sourced in the far East but assembled (to the extend necessary to print 'Made in........' on them) in Portugal.

Do enlighten us if you come across different information.

Michael.


The original Leica Trinovid BN which was introduced in September 2000 says "MADE IN GERMANY" on the front of the left eye cup. I have a 7x42 Trinovid BN.

http://www.company7.com/leica/news.html#1September2000

Bob

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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 14:42   #30
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The original Leica Trinovid BA/BNs say "MADE IN GERMANY" on the front of the left eye cup. I have a 7x42 Trinovid BN.

Bob
Bob, thanks for the correction.

I'm certainly not claiming any special knowledge in this area - I was just responding to what Lee said about everything coming from Portugal now. This must all be documented on the internet somewhere, surely?

I presume then that manufacture of the Trinovids moved to Portugal when the Ultravid became TOTL?
I think the BCA's were always made in Portugal however. Certainly mine from the early/mid 90's were.

Michael.
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 15:07   #31
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Not entirely correct as Zeiss continue to manufacture and assemble in Wetzar. See the interview with Joerg Schmitz on the Zeiss forum. And there have been rumours that Meopta has occasionally made stuff for Swaro as they have for Leica and Zeiss, although rumours are by no means always correct.

Lee
Yes I've read that.
Although when I visited both Zeiss and Swarovski factories some c.15 years ago, I saw full production of binocular lenses, prisms, coatings and alloy barrels. Then assembly, testing and packing, at both companies. ( the Victory, later FL, was a prototype then ). Other components, such as the rubber armouring, were brought in from specialist contractors. At that time we weren't advised where the Victory barrels were being manufactured.
Hasn't the new Zeiss factory in Hungary and transfer of posts suggested otherwise? We can only read in between the lines.
Perhaps the new Leitz Park concentrates on other areas of optics production - cameras I've just noticed. Factory tours are by appointment obviously. Looks like a fantastic place for the history of the company, museum, cafe and conference centre apart from the admin headquarters.

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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 15:45   #32
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Yes I've read that.
Although when I visited both Zeiss and Swarovski factories some c.15 years ago, I saw full production of binocular lenses, prisms, coatings and alloy barrels. Then assembly, testing and packing, at both companies. ( the Victory, later FL, was a prototype then ). Other components, such as the rubber armouring, were brought in from specialist contractors. At that time we weren't advised where the Victory barrels were being manufactured.
Hasn't the new Zeiss factory in Hungary and transfer of posts suggested otherwise? We can only read in between the lines.
Perhaps the new Leitz Park concentrates on other areas of optics production - cameras I've just noticed. Factory tours are by appointment obviously. Looks like a fantastic place for the history of the company, museum, cafe and conference centre apart from the admin headquarters.
Pyrtle
The factory in Hungary isn't new at all and I think it was acquired by Zeiss in the early 1990's. Joerg Schmitz says that Wetzlar is their key site and that Victory models are being made there e.g.that is where the Harpias are being made right now as well as SF, HT, HT Range.

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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 15:55   #33
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Bob, thanks for the correction.

I'm certainly not claiming any special knowledge in this area - I was just responding to what Lee said about everything coming from Portugal now. This must all be documented on the internet somewhere, surely?

I presume then that manufacture of the Trinovids moved to Portugal when the Ultravid became TOTL?
I think the BCA's were always made in Portugal however. Certainly mine from the early/mid 90's were.

Michael.

Mike

You would think there would be a clue on the internet wouldn't you. But heres the thing. I mentioned a friend has had a tour of the Leitz Park and saw photo gear being made but no binos. I am pretty sure I remember him saying all he saw was a video of binos being made, not the real thing.

There is a fair amount of material on the internet about visits to Leitz Park to see photo gear production and much is made of the return to Wetzlar from the old furniture factory down the road. But I haven't found any photos or videos or even a categoric quote from any Leica spokesperson that sports optics products are actually made in the Leitz Park. Even the intro to Leitz Park on the link you gave says amongst other things that the visitor can see how binoculars are made. It doesn't say you can see them being made and this kind of sounds like you can watch a video of it as reported by my friend.

None of this is 100% conclusive but it is enough to convince me. Frankly I would love to be proved wrong. Wetzlar is a lovely town and with a great optics heritage.

Lee
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 16:32   #34
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Mike

You would think there would be a clue on the internet wouldn't you. But heres the thing. I mentioned a friend has had a tour of the Leitz Park and saw photo gear being made but no binos. I am pretty sure I remember him saying all he saw was a video of binos being made, not the real thing.

There is a fair amount of material on the internet about visits to Leitz Park to see photo gear production and much is made of the return to Wetzlar from the old furniture factory down the road. But I haven't found any photos or videos or even a categoric quote from any Leica spokesperson that sports optics products are actually made in the Leitz Park. Even the intro to Leitz Park on the link you gave says amongst other things that the visitor can see how binoculars are made. It doesn't say you can see them being made and this kind of sounds like you can watch a video of it as reported by my friend.

None of this is 100% conclusive but it is enough to convince me. Frankly I would love to be proved wrong. Wetzlar is a lovely town and with a great optics heritage.

Lee
Thanks, Lee. Yes, now I see that the site says that Lenses and Cameras are made there, but it doesn't mention binos, as confirmed by your friend who visited. Sorry for being slow! It's not a big deal to me personally (nor to you, I'm sure) but it would be nice to know the facts. Perhaps all Leicas are indeed manufactured in Portugal but the TOTL models are assembled to some extent in Germany. You would have thought that would add considerable extra cost though and is something that they wouldn't do just to be able to write 'Made in Germany' on them.......

Someone must know the facts! I agree though that if Leica don't make it clear anywhere that some binos are actually manufactured in Germany, then they quite probably aren't. I wonder how they distinguish between (or define) 'made in' as opposed to 'manufactured' in that case?

I think I'll just go back to enjoying looking through them!

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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 16:55   #35
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I remember reading somewhere here in our Binocular Forum that some people had Blackline Binoculars that had "Made in Portugal" printed on them and other's had Blacklines with "Made in Germany" printed on them.

Bob
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Old Thursday 13th September 2018, 18:20   #36
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...I presume then that manufacture of the Trinovids moved to Portugal when the Ultravid became TOTL?
I think the BCA's were always made in Portugal however. Certainly mine from the early/mid 90's were...
The original Leica (not the earlier Leitz) Trinovid, with the internal focus and chunky ribbed body, and that came in x32, x42, and x50 sizes, also known as the Leica Ultra Trinovid BA and later as the (closer focus) Leica Trinovid BN, and that was subsequently replaced by the original x32-x50 sized Ultravid, was labeled as Made in Germany. The original x32-x50 sized Ultravid was also labeled Made in Germany.

The pocket Leica Trinovid (in x20 and x25 sizes) was labeled as Made in Portugal, and the same is true of the pocket sized Leica Ultravid models, whether rubber armored or leather covered.

--AP
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 08:03   #37
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The original Leica (not the earlier Leitz) Trinovid, with the internal focus and chunky ribbed body, and that came in x32, x42, and x50 sizes, also known as the Leica Ultra Trinovid BA and later as the (closer focus) Leica Trinovid BN, and that was subsequently replaced by the original x32-x50 sized Ultravid, was labeled as Made in Germany. The original x32-x50 sized Ultravid was also labeled Made in Germany.

The pocket Leica Trinovid (in x20 and x25 sizes) was labeled as Made in Portugal, and the same is true of the pocket sized Leica Ultravid models, whether rubber armored or leather covered.

--AP
Thanks or the info Alexis. I'd certainly be interested to know a full history of where Leica binoculars have been made (by which I mean manufactured) and are currently being made.


Lee,

I wonder if it's a good idea to start a separate thread about this (perhaps transfer the relevant posts from this thread) as it's an interesting subject and off topic in this thread? Not sure how you'd do that, or if you would think it's a good idea?
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 08:18   #38
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Thanks or the info Alexis. I'd certainly be interested to know a full history of where Leica binoculars have been made (by which I mean manufactured) and are currently being made.


Lee,

I wonder if it's a good idea to start a separate thread about this (perhaps transfer the relevant posts from this thread) as it's an interesting subject and off topic in this thread? Not sure how you'd do that, or if you would think it's a good idea?
Mike

I think we have taken this topic as far as it can go but if someone comes up with more conclusive evidence then a new thread could be appropriate. In any case in today's global economy it is not surprising that production of complete products or components get moved around from time to time.

Lee
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 09:18   #39
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Mike

I think we have taken this topic as far as it can go but if someone comes up with more conclusive evidence then a new thread could be appropriate. In any case in today's global economy it is not surprising that production of complete products or components get moved around from time to time.

Lee
Totally understand. I'm working on it!
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 23:27   #40
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Curiously, nobody seems to comment on the unusual (for Leica) optical design of the 2011-15 Trinovid which is what struck me most about it. It offered a somewhat flatter field than the Ultravid, at the cost of worse falloff near the edges and a mildly odd effect when panning (surely less obvious than the infamous RB of early Swarovision). I thought it was a promising experiment for such a conservative company, though Leica clearly decided otherwise.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 01:22   #41
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Tenex,

When I have some time I will compare the Trinovid 8X42 and the Ultravid 8X42 HD. Off the bat the Trinovid has a slightly smaller FOV.

Andy W.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 01:35   #42
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Tenex,

When I have some time I will compare the Trinovid 8X42 and the Ultravid 8X42 HD. Off the bat the Trinovid has a slightly smaller FOV.

Andy W.
Andy:

If you go back on the Leica subforum, there are lots of posts and comparisons and reviews of this Trinovid and the Trinovid HD. Read some of those and learn more.

I have owned this model Trinovid you are referring to, and you can find my thoughts a while back on the forum,

This Trinovid seems to be simply a reincarnated Ultravid BR, with similar optics.

The Trinovid lacks in brightness to both the Trinovid HD, and the Ultravid HD, where both models step things up, optically.

I think that is why this model was not around long, it was an orphan with
no real reason to stay in the Leica lineup.

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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 06:15   #43
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"Read some of those and learn more."

A bit blunt tonight eh?

Andy W.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 07:29   #44
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"Read some of those and learn more."

A bit blunt tonight eh?

Andy W.
LOL.
Jerry can come across as a bit 'brusque'.

But in this case I am sure he was just pointing you in the direction of helpful info, hence his further comments in the same post which certainly wouldn't have been there if 'being blunt' was actually his aim.

I tend to use 10 words where 5 would do the job, Jerry is often more 'economical' .

Lee
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 14:25   #45
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Thanks Lee, I understand that there is info on the Trinovids, but it is limited, (Nothing there about the specific comments from Tenex) and since the information is "subjective" - others opinions, I will to find out for myself and keep my findings in-house. Nothing like having ones own opinions.

Andy W.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 17:04   #46
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Curiously, nobody seems to comment on the unusual (for Leica) optical design of the 2011-15 Trinovid which is what struck me most about it. It offered a somewhat flatter field than the Ultravid, at the cost of worse falloff near the edges and a mildly odd effect when panning (surely less obvious than the infamous RB of early Swarovision). I thought it was a promising experiment for such a conservative company, though Leica clearly decided otherwise.
Here's a cutaway of the 2011-15 10x42 Trinovid and 7x42 Ultravid. No field flattener elements between prisms and eyepiece, the plane of focus is curved rather than planar.

Both are very similar designs although it seems likely the more expensive optic used lower-dispersion glass types from the Corning Inc. catalogue.

Both have pincushion distortion dialled in to stop distracting stretching when panning. Pincushion was originally specified by the military to aid spotting camouflaged targets when panning.

Leica have long espoused that some pincushion distortion and field curvature help give a three dimensional and transparent view.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 18:53   #47
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Leica have long espoused that some pincushion distortion and field curvature help give a three dimensional and transparent view.
And let's hope that they are never seduced by the idea that they might get a larger market share by producing binos with a flat field!
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 23:49   #48
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Here's a cutaway model of the older Trinivid with ray diagram added. A leica dealer was selling it on ebay a while back.
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Old Tuesday 18th September 2018, 00:38   #49
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"Read some of those and learn more."

A bit blunt tonight eh?

Andy W.
Andy:

I'm very sorry I hurt your feelings.

Did you go ahead and read more ? Live and learn, there is lots of information
on Birdforum, especially some years back.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 18th September 2018, 01:03   #50
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Thanks Jerry, I have thick skin, I was just busting your chops. Right now I am on a bit of break, our horizontal drill to install a 20 inch pipe over a mile in the ground did not work out, so back to the drawing board. Currently I am enjoying the 2011-2015 Trinovids (don't know how to otherwise distinguish them from the BNs and the HDs), and some other new to me, large aperture Ultravids.

AW
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