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Leicas BA and BNs

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Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 15:46   #1
dries1
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Leicas BA and BNs

One wonders how long Leica will service the BAs and BNs, is there any info out there of how many more years they will continue.

Andy W.
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Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 16:28   #2
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Andy

I think it will depend on what work is required. If its just a clean-up of all the lenses and prisms plus a lube of the focus mechanism, presumably that could continue indefinitely. Work involving replacement of parts will depend on stocks of those parts and whether Leica can or will order or make any more of them. Either way the rate at which the stock of spares is consumed will depend on the rate at which binos are coming in for repair and that is probably very difficult to forecast.

Lee
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Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 17:23   #3
dries1
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Thanks Lee, there seem to be many BAs and BNs out there.

Andy W.
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 12:22   #4
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Well, they were built like tanks, and on that basis should prove to be relatively durable, excepting major accidents. I think if the design had had major flaws, Leica wouldn't have kept making them for as long as they did. I would suspect that the durability of the outer armour might be the limiting factor in most cases. I traded mine in because their weight was putting me off using them.
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 13:00   #5
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I think that the Trinovid BA and BN when first sold and were marketed in the UK, came with a 30 year guarantee; the Leica pledge then was they would carry parts for the duration of that time.
One would then presume that there would be sufficient spares to last 30 years from when they were withdrawn or superseded by the first Ultravids so theoretically up to the 2020s.
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 15:08   #6
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My 7x42 Trinovid BN came with a 3 year PASSPORT warranty. After that had expired it became covered by a "lifetime" warranty.

It also has a high quality zippered lightweight leather case which can be kept on the binocular while using it. I regularly put a waxy leather preservative on it from Schiels.

It hangs below the binocular on the neck strap while the binocular is in use. It can also be used as an eye piece cover when the binocular is hanging on the strap.

Bob

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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 16:43   #7
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Andy

I think it will depend on what work is required. If its just a clean-up of all the lenses and prisms plus a lube of the focus mechanism, presumably that could continue indefinitely. Work involving replacement of parts will depend on stocks of those parts and whether Leica can or will order or make any more of them. Either way the rate at which the stock of spares is consumed will depend on the rate at which binos are coming in for repair and that is probably very difficult to forecast.

Lee
... And then, there's Cory. Being able to handcraft parts is one of the things that separates the real optical techs from the dozens of optical wannabes. Will that ability cost much more than wiping off a lens or tightening a hinge. Yep! But if you have the money ... he has the skills. And, too, I could be brought out of retirement for enough money. Thus, I could do work for Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.

Bill
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 17:39   #8
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Good point Bill. Good luck with the money and even better luck with the retirement.

Lee
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 18:08   #9
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Good point Bill. Good luck with the money and even better luck with the retirement.

Lee
I once made several million dollars on a book concerning binoculars. But, before I could spend any of it ... I woke up and had to go mow the lawn.

Bill
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 19:24   #10
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... And then, there's Cory. Being able to handcraft parts is one of the things that separates the real optical techs from the dozens of optical wannabes. Will that ability cost much more than wiping off a lens or tightening a hinge. Yep! But if you have the money ... he has the skills. And, too, I could be brought out of retirement for enough money. Thus, I could do work for Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.

Bill
Bill:

There has been lots of repair questions on the site lately, and I should not
go off topic with the Leica's, but I will anyway, so pardon me.

It has been mentioned about binocular lenses that have lost their coatings.

Are lenses able to be recoated, ocular or objective ?

With all the complicated multi-coatings on most binoculars I say no.

But how about single coated or ?

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 20:29   #11
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Bill:

There has been lots of repair questions on the site lately, and I should not
go off topic with the Leica's, but I will anyway, so pardon me.

It has been mentioned about binocular lenses that have lost their coatings.

Are lenses able to be recoated, ocular or objective ?

With all the complicated multi-coatings on most binoculars I say no.

But how about single coated or ?

Jerry
Hi, Jerry:

Cory and I had lenses recoated all the time. I even bought a lens coating machine—dealing with coating lenses in small groups while dealing with other parts of a business can be a frustrating proposition. The old machine was a disaster. We dealt only with simple mag fluoride.

Multicoatings can be replaced. All it takes is time and $$$$. Most often it is not cost effective. Too often, we would have someone bring in his $100 bino and want $1,500+ worth of work done and stare at us like a deer in the headlights as we tried to bring him back into the real world.

Urban legend is just that. Simple Mag Fluoride is harder than the Bk7 beneath. But a less than .006", it doesn't offer a lot of protection from the inexperienced.

Bill
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 20:40   #12
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Hello Bill,

Would not replacing multicasting with single coating affect the optical train?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 21:46   #13
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Hello Arthur,
I think that using single coatings instead of multicoatings would affect the colour balance but have no effect on the light train.

The coatings were removed altogether from one side of an old Swarovski Porro because of bad fungus.
The two sides now have quite different colours.

I wonder if a spectacle lens coating lab could multicoat binocular lenses. There may only be 3 colour coatings, but maybe more. It wouldn't match both sides unless both sides were coated the same.

Horace Dall made his own vacuum coating chamber. It worked but was slow. He single coated a lot of optics.

There was a Leica camera tech here who also refigured and coated Leica lenses. Maybe Jason Adams?

I had three high quality 120mm objectives. Two were single coated at my own risk, as I was told the heat might crack them. I left the third uncoated as insurance. All three are fine and there is little difference in the performance between uncoated and single coated in actual use.
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 21:52   #14
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Hello Bill,

Would not replacing multicasting with single coating affect the optical train?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
Arthur:

I will get back to you; this idiot program once AGAIN dumped a post I was about to send off. And, this idiot poster forgot to create that post in Word. https://www.birdforum.net/images/smi...low/stress.gif

Bill
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Old Tuesday 9th October 2018, 22:08   #15
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Hello Bill,

Would not replacing multicasting with single coating affect the optical train?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
Hi, Arthur:

Cory and I only worked with magnesium fluoride. When we needed to recoat with multiple layers, we would usually just buy a new lens, charge the customer for coating, and use the old lens around the shop. I bought a coating machine, but it was old and temperamental. At a total thickness of .580 microns, there wasn’t going to be a problem with the optical train except for those who like to complain about everything ... real or imagined. If there is someone who could set me straight with classical literature or empirical data, I would be very pleased. The art, the craft, the science is far more important than anything I could say. Just remember all the aerodynamic reasons why the bumblebee can’t fly, which no one bothered to share with the bee.

Bill

PS SOME of our customers were worried about contrast and resolution. But none were worried about warm colors, cool colors, or stacking BBs.
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Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 01:22   #16
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Arthur,

As Bill will probably verify, several of the Swift 804 binoculars had identical optical trains but differed in their multi-coatings. I do experience systematic differences in contrast and color intensity between them, which can be seen in transmission spectra, but I further suspect there are also measurable/perceptible differences in CA as well.

Ed
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Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 16:37   #17
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It also has a high quality zippered lightweight leather case which can be kept on the binocular while using it. I regularly put a waxy leather preservative on it from Schiels.
We still have and use a 10x32 BN, and I've always thought that was the best carrying solution ever. Armored binos don't need a "case", just a cover, and it easily rolls up and stuffs in a pocket. 17 years later the leather is fine, never had to do anything to it.
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Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 17:43   #18
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Arthur,

As Bill will probably verify, several of the Swift 804 binoculars had identical optical trains but differed in their multi-coatings. I do experience systematic differences in contrast and color intensity between them, which can be seen in transmission spectra, but I further suspect there are also measurable/perceptible differences in CA as well.

Ed
Yeppers! But I found the MECHANICAL differences varied. Most on this and other binocular forums get wrapped around the axle about things that wouldn't even rate my attention. To me, a binocular is a tool no use not a reason for living.

Bill
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Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 19:46   #19
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Hi, Arthur:



PS SOME of our customers were worried about contrast and resolution. But none were worried about warm colors, cool colors, or stacking BBs.
Hello Bill,

Although differences in colour temperature may be demonstrated to me, like your customers, I have never had an issue with colour temperature. I also kept my bicycle's spare ball bearings in plastic containers.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 20:13   #20
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Hello Bill,

Although differences in colour temperature may be demonstrated to me, like your customers, I have never had an issue with colour temperature. I also kept my bicycle's spare ball bearings in plastic containers.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
Oh, I didn't say I didn't SEE differences; I just never cared. In Western Washington, I enjoyed the Stellers Jays; here, I enjoy the Magpies. I see no profit in attaching a percentage of enjoyment.

Bill
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Old Thursday 11th October 2018, 00:52   #21
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Hello Bill,

Although differences in colour temperature may be demonstrated to me, like your customers, I have never had an issue with colour temperature. I also kept my bicycle's spare ball bearings in plastic containers.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
Is that individually?

Ed
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Old Friday 12th October 2018, 20:49   #22
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... several of the Swift 804 binoculars had identical optical trains but differed in their multi-coatings. I do experience systematic differences in contrast and color intensity between them, which can be seen in transmission spectra, but I further suspect there are also measurable/perceptible differences in CA as well.

Ed
I would be most interested to know if this was also true of the Zeiss Jena 8x30s, 10x50s and others that were multi-coated from the 1980s? Some info on the net states that Nikon's first E series porros were single-coated - but (from memory) the multi-coated ones do look slightly different, so maybe the optical train had changed.

I often wonder whether turning out multi-coated lenses (and phase-coated prisms) for the great old classics like Dialyts and so on could ever be a sensible venture. There must be thousands of them out there, but probably not enough owners who would pay for the new glass, as well as for it to be retrofitted. The glass can come from the PRC - I doubt a PRC factory (or probably anywhere else) will be producing anything with the fit and finish of a Leitz Trinovid anytime soon, but they appear well able to produce high quality glass.

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