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50D or 40D?

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Old Wednesday 29th October 2008, 18:33   #1
JSI
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50D or 40D?

I've been considering this upgrade since the 50D came out. So what I'm curious is about whether the advances in the 50D make it worth the additional cost.

The 50D having higher MP and higher ISO functionality seem like they would be very useful for birding. I'm just curious is the higher ISO function of the 50D much better than the 40D.(Is ISO 6400/12800 even usable for birding)


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Jeremy
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Old Wednesday 29th October 2008, 19:17   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSI View Post
I've been considering this upgrade since the 50D came out. So what I'm curious is about whether the advances in the 50D make it worth the additional cost.

The 50D having higher MP and higher ISO functionality seem like they would be very useful for birding. I'm just curious is the higher ISO function of the 50D much better than the 40D.(Is ISO 6400/12800 even usable for birding)


Thanks,
Jeremy
Iso performance is the same - but Canon have done a good job by maintaining the iso performance, as resolution is increased by 50% without further noise.

More megapixels is a huge advantage with better cropibility.

Last edited by websurfer : Wednesday 29th October 2008 at 19:22.
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 13:43   #3
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Canon 50D - review release on dpreview.com.
Link

And Canon 50D achieved:"Highly Recommened" just and "only" 8.5 in Picture Quality, so no need to upgrade your 40D.....
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 14:43   #4
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Sorry I should have specified. I don't have a 40D. I have an old 350D/Rebel XT that I want to upgrade.

I'm leaning towards the 50D because of the pixel count for cropping but I don't know if it will be worth the $450 premium over the 40D.

Jeremy
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 15:20   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSI View Post
Sorry I should have specified. I don't have a 40D. I have an old 350D/Rebel XT that I want to upgrade.

I'm leaning towards the 50D because of the pixel count for cropping but I don't know if it will be worth the $450 premium over the 40D.

Jeremy
I have a 40D (and a 30D) and was looking at the 50D for extra cropability but after reading the Dpreview I am not sure that the 50D will do any better than the 40D.
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 16:23   #6
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Thanks for that. I just saw your other post regarding the 50D and the "cons" in that review really kill it.
Quote:
High ISO performance worse than 40D
Very limited usable RAW headroom (channel clipping)
Reduced dynamic range in the shadow areas compared to EOS 40D
Per-pixel detail not as good as on good 10 or 12 megapixel cameras
High-end lenses required to get the most out of the camera
Poor white balance performance under artificial light
Flash must be up for AF assist lamp (although AF is good even in low light)
Live view not as accurate as on 40D (framing very slightly off-center, not possible to magnify right out to the extreme corners)
That pretty much decides it for me. 40D and some saved cash

Jeremy
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 17:22   #7
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The more I read about the 40D I know I am making the right decsion to get one. I was thinking of waiting till January in the hope it may come down a little after Christmas.

Cheapest I have seen it is Ģ518 (with the Ģ60 cashback) so it is pretty good value anyway but I won't have the money till December so maybe it will be discounted a little more
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 17:30   #8
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Looks as if some of the poor results were due to using an early version of ACR 4.6. Might be worth checking for updates on DPReview before writing the camera completely off.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29857822

Last edited by paul goode : Thursday 30th October 2008 at 17:38.
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Old Thursday 30th October 2008, 18:13   #9
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I have seen several post from people upgrading to the 50D from the 40D and they were complaining that the noise was worst on the 50D. The stock answer to this seems to be along the lines that if you reduce the 50D's 15mp down to the 10mp of the 40D then the noise will be very similar - to me this reasoning is somewhat illogical why should you have to reduced the size to get acceptable results? am I missing something here.
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 02:33   #10
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I have also heard that one needs to view the images in DPP since ACR is not handling 50D files well right now and they are having the same problems the 40D had in its first 6 months with ACR. So maybe those folks might need to look at the files in DPP? Dunno. This is so annoying really.

Last edited by CCRII : Friday 31st October 2008 at 02:51.
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 05:29   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul goode View Post
Looks as if some of the poor results were due to using an early version of ACR 4.6. Might be worth checking for updates on DPReview before writing the camera completely off.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=29857822
They have now released an update using the final release of ACR 4.6. As far as I can see the cons remain the same.
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 06:53   #12
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I am using a new 50D - in the middle of a trip right now. So far, no problems.

ISO12800 gets panned a lot but it just helped me get a couple of shots that I wouldnt have gotten otherwise. I'll process the images when I am back and post more info on this. Dynamic range does appear to be a little less than with the 40D, but this is based on JPEGs - I need to check the RAW files to see what can be done there. On the flip side, the AF seems faster and more decisive than on the 40D.

The problem with the DPReview is that it compares noise at 100% crop. In such a case, an image with fewer MP will always look better. Ultimately, you need to compare identically-sized images and the best way to do so is to up-res the smaller file to equal the bigger one.

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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 08:54   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
The problem with the DPReview is that it compares noise at 100% crop. In such a case, an image with fewer MP will always look better. Ultimately, you need to compare identically-sized images and the best way to do so is to up-res the smaller file to equal the bigger one.

Vandit
With my 40D I very often produce near 100% crops for web images so I would be interested in the 50D to do the same but produce bird images where the target is bigger in the pic. In my case I would be looking at noise levels at near 100% which is why the DPReview has put me off.
I have certainly not dismissed the 50D yet but if I cannot crop heavily then it has no real advantage to me.
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 10:26   #14
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Hi, I was also thinking of upgrading to the 50D, will definately wait now until a 60D ?
I think the megapixel race should now stop though, a big pixel count looks good on the box but the problems it brings combined with big file sizes make it unnecessary.

I have a 400D, 40D and a few L class lenses.

Even though the 400D has been supposedly overtaken a few times, it still takes superb photos, makes a cracking second body, and is a great size to walk around with on holidays etc.

The 40d is a great tool, and I use it with a 400mm f5.6 for birding and just work with the limitations in focal length.

Photography for me is all about the subject, when you have L glass on the front, and you nail a photo just right, it doesn't matter what model number is on the camera.

John.
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 13:26   #15
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Thanks for all the helpful advive.

It really doesn't seem that the 50D is that much of an improvement on the 40D. With the price of the 40D now dipping below the $1k mark it seems to be the best for the money.
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 15:45   #16
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My main concern about the Canon 40D is that according to reviews: AI Servo autofocus mode is not reliable
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Old Friday 31st October 2008, 19:16   #17
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Here is the a full size and crop I have on my flickr site, I have reduced the noise in the background in the crop. It was slightly underexposed and a bit soft because it was a quick shot before the Robin flew off.
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 04:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by websurfer View Post
My main concern about the Canon 40D is that according to reviews: AI Servo autofocus mode is not reliable
What reviews are this? I use the 40D almost exclusively in AI servo mode (even for perched birds) and find it superb - albeit that I do not use the shutter button to focus.
I certainly find the AI servo on the 40D better than the 30D or 350D.
From what I can gather the AF system on the 50D is similar to the 40D and I would fully expect the AI Servo mode to be just as good.
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 05:33   #19
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I have been reading this review and did pay attention to this isssue as it was mentioned over and over again in different forums.
Have a look at this review from The Imaging Resource - Conclusions (Cons)

But if you have never experienced this issue it does surprice me a bit. But good news indeed!

Roy, maybe this was an issue when the camera entered the market and has later been fixed in a firmware upgrade? I donīt know cos I must admit, I have not seen the issue mentioned for a long time, but foucus is now more on the 50D and 5D II.

What I do remember is the fact that members in here do not use a TC any longer with their lenses, when using the 40D due to autofocus problems in AI Servo mode. Am I totally misunderstanding this?

Last edited by websurfer : Saturday 1st November 2008 at 06:50.
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 07:55   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by websurfer View Post
I have been reading this review and did pay attention to this isssue as it was mentioned over and over again in different forums.
Have a look at this review from The Imaging Resource - Conclusions (Cons)
What I do remember is the fact that members in here do not use a TC any longer with their lenses, when using the 40D due to autofocus problems in AI Servo mode. Am I totally misunderstanding this?
I think you could be misunderstanding this issue. The so called problem arises when trying to use a taped tc and a f5.6 lens with the centre focus point on the 40D.

Bearing in mind that all the xxxD and xxD Cameras are not supposed to AF above f5.6 this trick will always be a compromise as you are trying to fool the Camera into AF when it is outside of the Camera's specification.

This trick worked reasonable well in good light on the 30D but the 40D has an enhanced centre focus point and the Camera is not so easily fooled.
Having said that I very often still use a taped tc with my 40D and 400mm f5.6 lens although I believe the 100-400 is almost a no-no. This only applies to the centre focus point -If you use one of the outer focus points it is just as good as the 30D.

By the way this so called 'problem' is not isolated to AI Servo mode, it is the same in one-shot.

It should also be pointed out that the 50D is exactly the same from what I have heard which figures because the 40D and 50D have similar if not the same AF system.

Hope this helps
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 08:34   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy C View Post
I think you could be misunderstanding this issue. The so called problem arises when trying to use a taped tc and a f5.6 lens with the centre focus point on the 40D.

Bearing in mind that all the xxxD and xxD Cameras are not supposed to AF above f5.6 this trick will always be a compromise as you are trying to fool the Camera into AF when it is outside of the Camera's specification.

This trick worked reasonable well in good light on the 30D but the 40D has an enhanced centre focus point and the Camera is not so easily fooled.
Having said that I very often still use a taped tc with my 40D and 400mm f5.6 lens although I believe the 100-400 is almost a no-no. This only applies to the centre focus point -If you use one of the outer focus points it is just as good as the 30D.

By the way this so called 'problem' is not isolated to AI Servo mode, it is the same in one-shot.

It should also be pointed out that the 50D is exactly the same from what I have heard which figures because the 40D and 50D have similar if not the same AF system.

Hope this helps
Thank you for clearing up this for me. I donīt think we can consider this to be a camera issue, when people are doing the trick with TAPED pins. If the camera does live up to specifications, we should be satisfied. If you are trying to trick the camera you cannot expect top performance IMO.

As for AF on the 50D I have been reading that some improvement can be seen in AF performance because of the ultrafast DIGI IV processor, which also is a benefit for AF system, although this AF system might be the same as the one used in the 40D.

The question is for me, who has no camera at the moment, (only using a borrowed 400D from a close family member,) if I chose a XXD body should I then go for the 40D or the 50D? If I did have a 40D I donīt think I would upgrade, but if you donīt have any, the situation is a bit different.


..
BTW Roy, I have been on your excellent website and this lead me to quiet another question: I noticed a recently great pic of a Flesh Fly. Which lens did you use for that shot?

Last edited by websurfer : Saturday 1st November 2008 at 10:39.
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 12:03   #22
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Quote:
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Thank you for clearing up this for me. I donīt think we can consider this to be a camera issue, when people are doing the trick with TAPED pins. If the camera does live up to specifications, we should be satisfied. If you are trying to trick the camera you cannot expect top performance IMO.

As for AF on the 50D I have been reading that some improvement can be seen in AF performance because of the ultrafast DIGI IV processor, which also is a benefit for AF system, although this AF system might be the same as the one used in the 40D.

The question is for me, who has no camera at the moment, (only using a borrowed 400D from a close family member,) if I chose a XXD body should I then go for the 40D or the 50D? If I did have a 40D I donīt think I would upgrade, but if you donīt have any, the situation is a bit different.


..
BTW Roy, I have been on your excellent website and this lead me to quiet another question: I noticed a recently great pic of a Flesh Fly. Which lens did you use for that shot?
Have you seen this one of the Mallards, stunning

http://www.rchurchill.f2s.com/Mallards.htm
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 12:38   #23
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I thought you may want to look at this shot just taken last two cropped from first. The last two are a different frame but a bit sharper.
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 14:48   #24
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BTW Roy, I have been on your excellent website and this lead me to quiet another question: I noticed a recently great pic of a Flesh Fly. Which lens did you use for that shot?
Thanks for the comment 'websurfer' the fly shot was taken with the Canon 100mm macro lens, handheld.
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Old Saturday 1st November 2008, 23:13   #25
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I'd like to add my praise for the mallards Roy. Superb.
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