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Milvus sp. (Spain)

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Old Monday 20th July 2020, 20:26   #1
SLopezM
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Milvus sp. (Spain)

Hello again. I saw this bird some days ago in a lake in Ávila (Spain). At first, I would say it is Milvus migrans since we are in summer, but when looking closely at the picture I see a M. milvus too (which could be possible too). What do you think?
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Old Monday 20th July 2020, 21:29   #2
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uppertail clearly Black Kite
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Old Monday 20th July 2020, 21:59   #3
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Very occasionally I understand that hybridisation can occur, this image suggests that this could well be such an individual. I have only seen one example of this through a series of photos taken a few years back in Cyprus.
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 00:21   #4
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Many years ago there was a known example from Sweden

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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 08:17   #5
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Originally Posted by PYRTLE View Post
Very occasionally I understand that hybridisation can occur, this image suggests that this could well be such an individual. I have only seen one example of this through a series of photos taken a few years back in Cyprus.
Just because this bird shows some rufous breast feathers???
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 09:48   #6
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Just because this bird shows some rufous breast feathers???
Moreso the seemingly pale blue grey head ( in direct light ) though I recall seeing some Black Kites in China appearing quite rufous. On probability it is most likely a regular Black Kite, having read the article on the Estonia hybrid
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 12:56   #7
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Strikingly pale eyes for a Black?
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 13:11   #8
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Originally Posted by SLopezM View Post
Hello again. I saw this bird some days ago in a lake in Ávila (Spain). At first, I would say it is [i]Milvus migrans[/I
I would stick with first impression - more grey-headed migrans with varying amounts of rufous and varying iris colour (including light grey) is not unusual. The wingtips look about the same length as the (brown!) tail, in milvus, the tail would clearly extend beyond the wingtips (except perhaps in a juvenile).
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 14:49   #9
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eye colour and head greying is directly linked to age, first breeding birds still have dark eyes and brown head, both getting lighter with age. Afaik rufous tones are individual characters and more common to the easr but some iberian birds are rufous too
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 15:28   #10
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Although age related as noted above, AFAIK iris colour continues to lighten even for some years after birds reach first adult. The head also continues to get progressively grey as adults age over a number of years so for all intents and purposes, some ‘adults’ can be greyer-headed and paler eyed than others.
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 16:57   #11
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I have to add that the picture was taken during the first hours of the morning, so those red/orange tones could be due to the sunlight of the moment.

Due to the controversy this bird is creating, I am uploading another picture of the same individual. I didn't include it in the initial post since I believed the quality was too low and I thought it woudn't be useful.
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2020, 17:24   #12
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There’s no controversy, it’s a Black Kite!
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Old Thursday 23rd July 2020, 12:13   #13
SLopezM
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Thank you all for your answers. Due to your answers and my first impression at the field, I think I will leave it as Milvus migrans.
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