isabellina / isabellinus (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus · Oct 23, 2018

Just a guess about isabellina / isabellinus in the key.

For Turtur isabellinus (Syn for Streptopelia turtur rufescens) described here. Couldn't it be a dedication for María Isabella of Spain as Bonaparte the author was related to Sicilies as well?

Björn Bergenholtz · Oct 23, 2018

I have not checked the "Turtur isabellinus", but in Isabelline Wheatear Oenanthe isabellina, and Isabelline (Chinese or Turkestan) Shrike Lanius isabellinus, it´s a colour.

In Swedish we have this word, isabell, since 1637 and in the version ijssbellfärgad (Isabella-coloured) since 1667, but in English it has been used since at least the year 1600, as in "Isabella-colour satten” (silk).

But it sure makes me wonder. Why did you started this "guess", Martin? What made you doubt this long established explanation? What´s not Isabella-coloured in Bonaparte's (Turtle) Dove? In my view any Streptopelia turtur ssp. would be as Isabella-coloured as the other ...

Björn

Taphrospilus · Oct 23, 2018

You might be right. Even with my non existing latin do not see the beige or Isabella-colour.

T. Isabellinus Bp.; Mus. Berol. ex Insulis AEgypti superioris, Similis T. aurito, sed minor; capite dorso concolore, nec griseo; plumis dorsalibus paucis nigro tantum centralis.

But if I look at Zenaida aurita (?similar according Bonaparte?) I feel the colour is correct.

l_raty · Oct 23, 2018

Taphrospilus said:
You might be right. Even with my non existing latin do not see the beige or Isabella-colour.

The bird is said to be pale in the French sentence that precedes the Latin diagnosis:

Ajoutez à Turtur lugens une race qui est au contraire de couleur pâle, et qui provient aussi de l'Afrique orientale.

("Add to Turtur lugens a race which is on the contrary of a pale colour, and which comes as well from eastern Africa.")

Then, in the Latin diagnosis, there is also:

capite dorso concolore, nec griseo

...which means "the head concolorous with the back, and not grey". This gives you something like [this].

But if I look at Zenaida aurita (?similar according Bonaparte?) I feel the colour is correct.

(The comparison is not with Zenaida aurita; it is with 'Turtur auritus', which is a name Bonaparte used for what we now call Streptopelia turtur. Cf. https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/4616569 )

david kelly · Oct 23, 2018

Calalp said:
I have not checked the "Turtur isabellinus", but in Isabelline Wheatear Oenanthe isabellina, and Isabelline (Chinese or Turkestan) Shrike Lanius isabellinus, it´s a colour.

In Swedish we have this word, isabell, since 1637 and in the version ijssbellfärgad (Isabella-coloured) since 1667, but in English it has been used since at least the year 1600, as in "Isabella-colour satten” (silk).

But it sure makes me wonder. Why did you started this "guess", Martin? What made you doubt this long established explanation? What´s not Isabella-coloured in Bonaparte's (Turtle) Dove? In my view any Streptopelia turtur ssp. would be as Isabella-coloured as the other ...

Björn

Legend has it that the colour’s name comes from the name Isabella, after a lady whose husband left her to go on Crusade and she swore that she would not change her clothes until he returned. When he returned the clothes were a dirty beige and this colour was called “isabelline”. It really is just a legend as I am sure I have read that the word isabelline predates the Crusades.

David

isabellina / isabellinus (1 Viewer)

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Taphrospilus

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Björn Bergenholtz

(former alias "Calalp")

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l_raty

laurent raty

david kelly

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