salty
geordie birder
now then.......
after an interesting days testing the scopes at the birdfair, from all different companies such as leica, ziess, swarovski, nikon, opticron and more, i was able to to come to a few conclusions.
firstly, the zeiss 85FL angled version.
very compact for a 85mm scope, and surprisingly light. first tests were with the zoom, that i was after in the first place.
straight away when at 20x mag, the 'soft' edge around the sight picture is obvious, this shouldnt be a factor with todays scopes and this makes the field of view at the lowest mag pretty much pointless. you can only clearly see what is in the middle, and thats a shame.
the zoom itself is easy to use, and not too huge like i have heard about, i found it quite comortable to use. as for the twin focussing wheels, ie rough and fine - these are brilliant. the fine focus alone stands out compared to other scopes apart from the equally brilliant leica focus wheel.
at 30x mag it is still bright and detailed, although after this the field of view collapses right down untill you get to 60x, where the image is still quite detailed and bright, although i wouldnt say any better than the other scopes in good light. however at around 5:30pm we tested the scopes again, and the swarovski and zeiss were noticeably better at full zoom in the poorer light as we watched 2 ospreys scrapping over the tree tops.
we also tested the 30xWW and the 40xWW. the 30x eyepiece - WOW. this was impressive, outstanding clarity, brightness and overall detail. i would say this eyepiece outperforms the same 30x eyepiece from the other companies, it really is superb.
the 40x, although good as it was, wasnt going to be any more helpfull than the 30x. the image you got from various distances is nothing to shout about, so you might as well go for the 30x mag and have the extra brightness and clarity if you are going for a fixed lens.
swarovski ATS 80HD angled version.
this is a good scope, no doubt about it. the sales figures speak for themselves. although a little more expensive than other scopes, they are still pretty reasonable compared to the price of top end binoculars, so are therefore good value for money.
the zoom eye piece is very comortable to use, on par with the leica for my eyes. i felt settled almost straight away when using this scope. the image at 20x is fantastic, with no soft spot like the zeiss zoom at the same mag.
what is also noticeable is the colour clarity using the swaro, the image is great in all the top end scopes, but colour wise, the swaro and leica are superb. exactly what you want when your paying top dollar.
the thing that stood out on the swaro compared with the leica and zeiss, is the focus wheel. this wasnt as good as it could be, as it doesnt have separate fine/rough wheels, you cant get an instant fine image like you can on the other two scopes. this isnt a big problem, it just means you have to spent extra seconds fiddling with the wheel untill the image is right.
at higher mags, the image is still brilliant and i noticed the clarity, once you got the image fine focussed that is, still to be right up there, quality. on the full 60x zoom, you wont notice a big difference over the cheaper scopes, untill you get to a point where the light levels are dropping, and the distances are quite far away. this is when the top scopes come into there own.
the 30x WW eyepiece is like the zeiss version, superb. although i still think the ziess edges it for brightness and detail, the swaro is better colour wise, although not to an extreme.
although this scope doesnt really have any bad points, i still think a fine focus wheel and a price drop would of around £100-200 would really help.
leica APO televid 77 angled version.
this is still a favourite of mine, as i had previously owned one, i know this scope inside out.
yes, it is longer and heavier than most big scopes thesedays, but it is cheaper and image wise is still superb. forget the televid scopes, the APO televid versions are the ones to have.
this scope is a doddle to use, with an exellent twin focus wheel that is on par with the zeiss, and the eyepieces fit your eye perfectly. the zoom model is brilliant.
at 20x mag the image is crisp and the detail isnt lost when you go to the edge of the field of view. the colours are fantastic, as with the swaro, you are stunned when watching birds through this scope. quality.
at higher mags, the image is still very useable even upto the full 60x you cannot really say it is better or poorer than the swaro and zeiss, even at lowlight. the differences are minute. it is down to your own eyes at the end of the day.
nikon field scope82 angled version.
this is the cheapest of the scopes that are worth owning, and i had to include this into the test, as they do produce exellent optics.
i tested the fieldscope 82 with the zoom eyepiece first, and was blown away by the image. i have used the older 78 version before, and was surprised at the image from that, as fro mthe outside they dont look like anything special, but infact they are surpriseingly good. they let there lens do the talking.
the zoom eyepiece however good it is, untill you use the 30xWW, you will soon be thinking this scope was up there with the very best. this lens is outstanding.
i would say the 30x WW lens is one of the best i have viewed through, right there with the zeiss. clarity, brightness and the all important colour definition are superb. if i was to own a nikon, this is the eyepiece i would have.
the scope itself isnt exactly a good looker, rather ugly infact, but you pay for the optics not the looks. the main poor point to this scope, like the swaro, is the focus wheel.
they are the same design, one big wheel with no fine adjustment, but the nikon wheel isnt nice to use. it is just too rough, and lets the scope down, as good as the optics maybe. the previous focus on the 78 was a dream compared to this. the lowest price scope however, you should check this kit out when considering a high end scope.
all in all some great scopes. i would be happy to own either one of them.
really the only thing seperating the top scopes, are the focuss wheels. the extra choice you have with leica and zeiss wheels are superb, and the swaro and nikon are seriously let down, in my view, by there lack of a fine focus wheel.
the swaro and zeiss are the better scopes at top mag, although you are never going to stay on 60x for most of your birding anyway. in that case, the 30x WW come into there own.
if all scopes only had this lens available the zeiss and nikon would be the top sellers easily. they are superb lenses.
so what will i buy then...........
i will still probaly go with the zeiss 85FL.
yes the swaro is a little better colour wise, the zeiss focus wheel and the performance matching 60x mag still swings it for me. plus the £200 i would save buying the zeiss over the swaro, means i can get the truly awesome 30x WW eyepiece for the zeiss thrown in! - result or what.
i would still like to hear your comments etc, so keep them coming in, and i would like to thank all those who have contributed to this thread, cheers.
after an interesting days testing the scopes at the birdfair, from all different companies such as leica, ziess, swarovski, nikon, opticron and more, i was able to to come to a few conclusions.
firstly, the zeiss 85FL angled version.
very compact for a 85mm scope, and surprisingly light. first tests were with the zoom, that i was after in the first place.
straight away when at 20x mag, the 'soft' edge around the sight picture is obvious, this shouldnt be a factor with todays scopes and this makes the field of view at the lowest mag pretty much pointless. you can only clearly see what is in the middle, and thats a shame.
the zoom itself is easy to use, and not too huge like i have heard about, i found it quite comortable to use. as for the twin focussing wheels, ie rough and fine - these are brilliant. the fine focus alone stands out compared to other scopes apart from the equally brilliant leica focus wheel.
at 30x mag it is still bright and detailed, although after this the field of view collapses right down untill you get to 60x, where the image is still quite detailed and bright, although i wouldnt say any better than the other scopes in good light. however at around 5:30pm we tested the scopes again, and the swarovski and zeiss were noticeably better at full zoom in the poorer light as we watched 2 ospreys scrapping over the tree tops.
we also tested the 30xWW and the 40xWW. the 30x eyepiece - WOW. this was impressive, outstanding clarity, brightness and overall detail. i would say this eyepiece outperforms the same 30x eyepiece from the other companies, it really is superb.
the 40x, although good as it was, wasnt going to be any more helpfull than the 30x. the image you got from various distances is nothing to shout about, so you might as well go for the 30x mag and have the extra brightness and clarity if you are going for a fixed lens.
swarovski ATS 80HD angled version.
this is a good scope, no doubt about it. the sales figures speak for themselves. although a little more expensive than other scopes, they are still pretty reasonable compared to the price of top end binoculars, so are therefore good value for money.
the zoom eye piece is very comortable to use, on par with the leica for my eyes. i felt settled almost straight away when using this scope. the image at 20x is fantastic, with no soft spot like the zeiss zoom at the same mag.
what is also noticeable is the colour clarity using the swaro, the image is great in all the top end scopes, but colour wise, the swaro and leica are superb. exactly what you want when your paying top dollar.
the thing that stood out on the swaro compared with the leica and zeiss, is the focus wheel. this wasnt as good as it could be, as it doesnt have separate fine/rough wheels, you cant get an instant fine image like you can on the other two scopes. this isnt a big problem, it just means you have to spent extra seconds fiddling with the wheel untill the image is right.
at higher mags, the image is still brilliant and i noticed the clarity, once you got the image fine focussed that is, still to be right up there, quality. on the full 60x zoom, you wont notice a big difference over the cheaper scopes, untill you get to a point where the light levels are dropping, and the distances are quite far away. this is when the top scopes come into there own.
the 30x WW eyepiece is like the zeiss version, superb. although i still think the ziess edges it for brightness and detail, the swaro is better colour wise, although not to an extreme.
although this scope doesnt really have any bad points, i still think a fine focus wheel and a price drop would of around £100-200 would really help.
leica APO televid 77 angled version.
this is still a favourite of mine, as i had previously owned one, i know this scope inside out.
yes, it is longer and heavier than most big scopes thesedays, but it is cheaper and image wise is still superb. forget the televid scopes, the APO televid versions are the ones to have.
this scope is a doddle to use, with an exellent twin focus wheel that is on par with the zeiss, and the eyepieces fit your eye perfectly. the zoom model is brilliant.
at 20x mag the image is crisp and the detail isnt lost when you go to the edge of the field of view. the colours are fantastic, as with the swaro, you are stunned when watching birds through this scope. quality.
at higher mags, the image is still very useable even upto the full 60x you cannot really say it is better or poorer than the swaro and zeiss, even at lowlight. the differences are minute. it is down to your own eyes at the end of the day.
nikon field scope82 angled version.
this is the cheapest of the scopes that are worth owning, and i had to include this into the test, as they do produce exellent optics.
i tested the fieldscope 82 with the zoom eyepiece first, and was blown away by the image. i have used the older 78 version before, and was surprised at the image from that, as fro mthe outside they dont look like anything special, but infact they are surpriseingly good. they let there lens do the talking.
the zoom eyepiece however good it is, untill you use the 30xWW, you will soon be thinking this scope was up there with the very best. this lens is outstanding.
i would say the 30x WW lens is one of the best i have viewed through, right there with the zeiss. clarity, brightness and the all important colour definition are superb. if i was to own a nikon, this is the eyepiece i would have.
the scope itself isnt exactly a good looker, rather ugly infact, but you pay for the optics not the looks. the main poor point to this scope, like the swaro, is the focus wheel.
they are the same design, one big wheel with no fine adjustment, but the nikon wheel isnt nice to use. it is just too rough, and lets the scope down, as good as the optics maybe. the previous focus on the 78 was a dream compared to this. the lowest price scope however, you should check this kit out when considering a high end scope.
all in all some great scopes. i would be happy to own either one of them.
really the only thing seperating the top scopes, are the focuss wheels. the extra choice you have with leica and zeiss wheels are superb, and the swaro and nikon are seriously let down, in my view, by there lack of a fine focus wheel.
the swaro and zeiss are the better scopes at top mag, although you are never going to stay on 60x for most of your birding anyway. in that case, the 30x WW come into there own.
if all scopes only had this lens available the zeiss and nikon would be the top sellers easily. they are superb lenses.
so what will i buy then...........
i will still probaly go with the zeiss 85FL.
yes the swaro is a little better colour wise, the zeiss focus wheel and the performance matching 60x mag still swings it for me. plus the £200 i would save buying the zeiss over the swaro, means i can get the truly awesome 30x WW eyepiece for the zeiss thrown in! - result or what.
i would still like to hear your comments etc, so keep them coming in, and i would like to thank all those who have contributed to this thread, cheers.