Zeiss Victory 8x32FL Vs Leica Trinovid 8x32BN ramblings (1 Viewer)

idaho john said:

Brendan: just wanted to add my thanks as well. I enjoyed reading your report about the two binoculars. Even though I get caught up in the "scientific optic jargon," I often find more value in another person's subjective experience.

john

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Hi John

Thank's for the positve words, im glad you enjoyed my comparison.

Happy birdwatching!:t:

stereotruckdriver said:

:t:

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Cheers truckdriver!:t: Happy birdwatching!

thisdudeisgood said:

You are a wise one, have you done a similar comparison I wonder? By the way I love your Hawfinch, best time for me to watch them is the Autumn at Scone Palace Perthshire. Top of the Finch list!

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Yeah I have done similar comparisons as I too have both of these amazing binoculars. These days I do tend to reach for the Zeiss has they have a slight edge but I still like to take the Tinovids out sometimes. The older BA was the first top end binocular that I tried and I was amazed by them, took me many years before I got a pair of my own. The ergonomics of them coupled with the superb view and the relatively low secondhand price these days makes them one of the best buys around.

postcardcv said:

Yeah I have done similar comparisons as I too have both of these amazing binoculars. These days I do tend to reach for the Zeiss has they have a slight edge but I still like to take the Tinovids out sometimes. The older BA was the first top end binocular that I tried and I was amazed by them, took me many years before I got a pair of my own. The ergonomics of them coupled with the superb view and the relatively low secondhand price these days makes them one of the best buys around.

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Hello postcardcv

I had a sneeky feeling you had done this comparison before!

Yeah I completely agree that the whole package of the Trinovid is hard to beat and Im really torn as to whether let it go or not. For me it is a far more attractive binocular than the Zeiss and after so many memorable moments with it I feel I am loosing an old friend! My first Chough on Islay, My first Crested Tit in Abernethy, My first Willow Tit in Galloway, My first Bearded Tit on the Inner Tay Marsh and my first Nuthatch (In Inverkip my home patch, Inverclyde, where they are not supposed to be...but the BTO have accepted!).

On the one hand I need the money but to my instincts they are surely worth more £££ than todays secondahand value suggests and I wonder if I would regret selling them in the end. I'm half inclined to get them off to Leica and when they come back like new just keep them for the future. Do I need the money that much I am asking myself?

You are dead right when you say; "The ergonomics of them coupled with the superb view and the relatively low secondhand price these days makes them one of the best buys around".....never a truer word said!

My comparison was done for the folks on the forum and so we are all obviously interested in binoculars and have at least a basic grasp of how to evaluate what we are looking at. We read about binoculars and we know what to look for. Birds are our passion and we want the very best gear and we pay for it as it is our hobby, however if you let non binocular punters, people down the pub look through these binoculars, I bet the difference to them would be so close I bet many many of them would prefer the view through the Trionvid. If you told them the price difference I bet they would be surprised and say the Zeiss was overpriced.

Given the price of the new 'Alpha' binoculars even a new Trinovid was a serious bargain indeed. Maybe the Trinovid was underpriced or maybe the new 'Alphas' are seriously overpriced. Maybe it is genuinely massively more expensive for the manufacturer to produce the FL glass and these costs must be passed on to us? I can't say. Having compared the Trinovid to the Victory I am now of the opinion that given the price of some of these Alpha binoculars the manufacturers must be making lucrative profit. Like UK houseprices, ha ha ha.

I got my MINT....* (From the photos you understand I mean MINT...I have been after an 8x32T*FL for at least 2 years...there are a lot of badly cared for ones about so beware)... *Victory for £826.99 delivered next day from London Camera Exchange (Southampton branch). I'm in the West of Scotland, they are on the Beautiful South Coast Of England...and the man there 'Marc' done the business and I had it the next day....Second to none customer service and highly recomended, but I digress!

If I had paid the full £1250(and the rest) I would seriously have asked myself if it was worth it given how superb the Trinovid is. If you buy a ferrari you understand why it costs so much say compared to a family saloon, but with these two binoculars the price gulf is puzzling to me giving the equally superb manufacturing, materials and design. No question the optics for me are superior in the Victory but for my eyes they are nothing like twice as superior!


Cheers & happy birding:t:

Brendan

garymh said:

They did quite a few of them over the years.

Here are a couple of mine.

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Hello garymh

I was wondering since you were having a look on the Zeiss forum, and you obviously own the new Leica (in a very cool colour)...have you done a comparison between the Victory and the Leica HD / Ultravid? I would be very interested to hear what you have to report about the new Leica. Did you have the original Trinovid before you obtained the new Ultravid?

Cheers

Brendan

postcardcv said:

Yeah I have done similar comparisons as I too have both of these amazing binoculars. These days I do tend to reach for the Zeiss has they have a slight edge but I still like to take the Tinovids out sometimes. The older BA was the first top end binocular that I tried and I was amazed by them, took me many years before I got a pair of my own. The ergonomics of them coupled with the superb view and the relatively low secondhand price these days makes them one of the best buys around.

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Hello again

I just wanted to ask a quick question if you don't mind:

I never owned a BA, but is the only difference between the BA and the BN the close focus difference? Have you any experience of any optical difference other than the close focus between them? (assuming you have seen through a BN).

Cheers

Brendan

thisdudeisgood said:

Hello postcardcv

On the one hand I need the money but to my instincts they are surely worth more £££ than todays secondahand value suggests and I wonder if I would regret selling them in the end. I'm half inclined to get them off to Leica and when they come back like new just keep them for the future. Do I need the money that much I am asking myself?

Brendan

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Thisdudeisgood,

I came that close to write you the other day, but felt it is a bet impertinent to give anybody advice. But since you said it in the above terms, my experience is "yes, you will regret selling them", and even with owning a superior Zeiss, the likelihood that you will buy them back is quite high. If you can afford it, keep them--if you can send them to Leica for "fine tuning"--please do. I opened the newly acquired BA 10x32 back from Leica the other day, and their performance is staggering. They are very close to the missed BN 8x32. Now the Leica compliments the FL 8x32 very nicely indeed and both are used quite a lot. Can I be specific about why do gravitate back to Leica Trinovid despite of the superior Zeiss FL? No, I can not, but maybe it is the combination of the "color" and the ergonomics.

Enjoy in good health.

thisdudeisgood said:

Hello again

I just wanted to ask a quick question if you don't mind:

I never owned a BA, but is the only difference between the BA and the BN the close focus difference? Have you any experience of any optical difference other than the close focus between them? (assuming you have seen through a BN).

Cheers

Brendan

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I have owned both the BA and the BN and really could not see any optical difference (although I didnot own them at the same time), though the better close focus on the BN is a big plus. I would agree that you would regret selling your Leicas. I sold mine some time ago and regretted it, so ended up buying another pair last year!

Hi,
Good question on BA vs. BN. In 2002, when I bought my BA 10x42 I tried a new BN green, sold in a "Hunter Set". They were at the same price, been the BN at some kind of promotion. I tried two days in a row, at diferent daytimes. I really wanted the BN. I tried hard and almost fooled myself, but I couldn´t. The BA was clearly better. The resolution was better. Clearly. I think probably was a difference between individual samples. But I left the shop with my new BA. Great binocular and relly well made. I should have not sell it when I bought the Zeiss FL, but I couldn´t. I keep my FL and don´t regret it in anyway!

PH

The coating reflections on the BA's objectives look yellow green, vs blue on the BNs. The BN coating looks less reflective to me. Surveyor has presented transmission curves which show the BN to be shaped a little differently, and about 3% higher over the brightest colors. I have not compared BA to BN in the same size unfortunately, nor with both in hand at the same time. Surely the difference is tiny if visible at all.

The BN closer focus is nice, provided you are not more than about 3-4 diopters nearsighted, in which case you would not be able to focus the BN at infinity without wearing eyeglasses.
Ron

I have a BA, a cute little bin of about 15 oz. Very handy, can carry in a coat pocket.

Won't try to do a good dude style comparison, but here are a few notes:

Brightness: FL obviously brighter

Resolution: BA is sharp, but FL sharper

Edge Sharpness: BA has a very small sweet spot. FL sharp close to edge.

Depth of view: FL much better

AFOV: same

Eye positioning: Very easy with FL. Eyecups seem to be in the way in the BA.

Conclusion: No comparison.

But.... BA is smaller and much lighter, and it's cute.

I just ordered a 8x32 FL LT T* yesterday as well - glad to know that user experiences here on BF echo the reviews I have come across.

Re distortion - it seems to me that this isn't as relevant in real life. I see photographers also obsessing over distortion (barrel/pincushion) in lenses, and at least in the field of nature photography, where there are no real straight lines, any differences in the minuscule amount of distortion that good lenses show is more or less irrelevant.

By the same token, I don't really think that the relatively minor distortion shown by various alpha binos will make any noticeable difference in the ability to see, appreciate and ID a bird.

Am I missing something?

postcardcv said:

I have owned both the BA and the BN and really could not see any optical difference (although I didnot own them at the same time), though the better close focus on the BN is a big plus. I would agree that you would regret selling your Leicas. I sold mine some time ago and regretted it, so ended up buying another pair last year!

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Thanks for the info, appreciated.

I have now sold my Trinovid (mainly due to the wife telling me the Bairns need new shoes!) my heart is broken and I regret it already!.......B

However....on a brighter note I have located a Tawny Owl nest hole and I had great pleasure the other day seeing 2x fledglings sitting out on branches, and after looking for about 10 mins (even with my new zeiss 8x32's) I seen the mother about 5ft away from the largest chick! The Camouflage is amazing! My second ever Tawny!:t:

vkalia said:

I just ordered a 8x32 FL LT T* yesterday as well - glad to know that user experiences here on BF echo the reviews I have come across.

Re distortion - it seems to me that this isn't as relevant in real life. I see photographers also obsessing over distortion (barrel/pincushion) in lenses, and at least in the field of nature photography, where there are no real straight lines, any differences in the minuscule amount of distortion that good lenses show is more or less irrelevant.

By the same token, I don't really think that the relatively minor distortion shown by various alpha binos will make any noticeable difference in the ability to see, appreciate and ID a bird.

Am I missing something?

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Hello vKalia

Very wise words. The bulk of the readers will agree I'm sure.

Your not missing anything my friend.:t:

Star Farmer said:

I have a BA, a cute little bin of about 15 oz. Very handy, can carry in a coat pocket.

Won't try to do a good dude style comparison, but here are a few notes:

Brightness: FL obviously brighter

Resolution: BA is sharp, but FL sharper

Edge Sharpness: BA has a very small sweet spot. FL sharp close to edge.

Depth of view: FL much better

AFOV: same

Eye positioning: Very easy with FL. Eyecups seem to be in the way in the BA.

Conclusion: No comparison.

But.... BA is smaller and much lighter, and it's cute.

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Thanks Star Farmer, It's good to get a second opinion. After all these are two very special 8x32's and deserve as many opinions as they can get!:t:

ronh said:

The coating reflections on the BA's objectives look yellow green, vs blue on the BNs. The BN coating looks less reflective to me. Surveyor has presented transmission curves which show the BN to be shaped a little differently, and about 3% higher over the brightest colors. I have not compared BA to BN in the same size unfortunately, nor with both in hand at the same time. Surely the difference is tiny if visible at all.

The BN closer focus is nice, provided you are not more than about 3-4 diopters nearsighted, in which case you would not be able to focus the BN at infinity without wearing eyeglasses.
Ron

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Hello Ron

Thanks for the info, that is very interesting. Forgive my ignorance but does '3% higher over the brightest colors' translate into more brightness or better colours in the BN or both (or neither?) Is the BN or BA the brightest?

I Have sold my BN now. Somewhat reluctantly in the end but the Zeiss must be paid for somehow right?!
:t:

:t:

PHA said:

Hi,
Good question on BA vs. BN. In 2002, when I bought my BA 10x42 I tried a new BN green, sold in a "Hunter Set". They were at the same price, been the BN at some kind of promotion. I tried two days in a row, at diferent daytimes. I really wanted the BN. I tried hard and almost fooled myself, but I couldn´t. The BA was clearly better. The resolution was better. Clearly. I think probably was a difference between individual samples. But I left the shop with my new BA. Great binocular and relly well made. I should have not sell it when I bought the Zeiss FL, but I couldn´t. I keep my FL and don´t regret it in anyway!

PH

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Hello PHA

Thanks for telling me about your observations. I have heard a few people say the BA was better too as per your experience. Some say there was better quality control at the factory during the time of the BA? Certainly my 10xBN armour seemed more rigid than my 8xBN armour.

Thanks to all for reading my ramblings.:t:

I can now announce that I have with a heavy heart sold my Leica Trinovid 8x32BN|=(|.

I hope the new owner gets as much joy from it as I did!|=)|

Hey Brendan

Thank you so much for this first-rate review! I'm thinking about getting some second-hand 8x32 FLs and this is really informative. I must admit to becoming obsessed with the 8x32 format (I love the minimalism aspect, and the fact that you can take them anywhere). I already have a pair of Leica 8x32 BRs (bought new in 2006) and a pair of second hand 8x32 BAs of indeterminate age. A nice pair of FLs would be the perfect complement!

It would be really interesting to hear your thoughts as you spend more time with your FLs!

Thanks again for such a thorough and entertaining appraisal!

Cheers
John

Hi John

I can recommend the Zeiss 100% for colour and brightness. In these values it clearly trumps the Leica. Don't however be fooled by the Lotu-Tec sales claims, it is bogus in my opinion.

The FL do not control flare as well as my Leicas used to, infact I can say this with conviction now and for me it is a serious flaw in the Zeiss and is detracting from my pleasure using them more than I initally thought it would during my initial comparissons. When the light is right the view is truly sublime, but the Zeiss is far less tolerant of difficult lighting situations than the Leica and eye placement for me is more of an effort with the FL where it was natural and automatic with the Leica. For me I'm not getting on with the Zeiss as I thought I would and while I am proud to own them I bitterly regret punting my 8x32BN's. I can now say with hindsight that the Trinovid while not as technically accomplished as the Zeiss were for me more natural in practical use and I miss them.

Hope this helps you

P.S. John you don't have a pair of Leica 8x32BR's and if you do where can I get a pair??:t: