question on Swift Binoculars (1 Viewer)

Hi,

I am new to this forum, and would like some help from you guys. I have a pair of Swift Audubon's I bought in the mid-late 80's. They are a model 825 7x35. I have not seen these talked about. Is there anything special, good,bad, or otherwise. I have enjoyed them very much, and the optics are great. I am thinking about maybe going to the 828, but havent decided. Are the binoculars still manufactured in Japan? I see where the rifle scopes are made in Korea now. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

If you have been using the 7x35s then you probably have a better idea of how good they are than most people here.

I have not used the 828 HHS binoculars, so I cannot speak to the usefulness of that pair. (You might check http://www.betterviewdesired.com/ and see if they are reviewed there.)

I do have the porro version - 820 - and those binoculars are optically excellent. Sometimes I wish I had a slightly lighter pair, but the ease of view more than makes up for that shortcoming. I have had this pair for several years now, and I have not been at all sorry that I purchased them.

My binoculars are stamped as being "Made in Japan," but that does not guarantee that all parts were made there.

one eye joe said:

Hi,

I am new to this forum, and would like some help from you guys. I have a pair of Swift Audubon's I bought in the mid-late 80's. They are a model 825 7x35. I have not seen these talked about. Is there anything special, good,bad, or otherwise. I have enjoyed them very much, and the optics are great. I am thinking about maybe going to the 828, but havent decided. Are the binoculars still manufactured in Japan? I see where the rifle scopes are made in Korea now. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

Joe,

Please look at the last attachment to Post #15 here, which is our review of the Swift Audubons that includes a discussion of the rare Model 825:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=42944&page=1&pp=25

I'd suggest you hold on to your 825, unless you're willing to sell it to me or Renze de Vries . Never having looked through one, I have no idea how it compares with Model 828, which is really an excellent moderate cost roof binocular. I suspect that the 825 is not phase coated, which would make it darker than the 828.

As far as I know the 828 is made in Japan, but that's not verified.
Ed

Hi Ed (and Joe),

Ed, you're right, I am interested!

Renze

Thanks for the information. I am certainly not a binocular expert. I bought these to replace a pair of Zeiss mini 8x20's that didn't quite work like I had hoped. I bought these mail order (Eagle maybe?). These were the only Swift binoculars in the catalog, and the salesman highly recommended them. As far as I knew up until recently, all Swifts were similar to mine. I use them mostly for hunting, and have not seen any other Swift's. I hope to check out some of the newer ones, as there are a couple of places in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that supposedly carry them. Maybe I can give you a more accurate estimate of how the 825's rate, if I can look at the 820 and 828.

I notice that several of you seem to prefer the 804 series to the newer ones. Are the optics better, better ergonomics, or what? I thought newer coatings and computer assisted design, etc. would make the newer ones superior.

One more question. The 828 is advertised as the first roof prism to carry the Audubon tag. What are mine?

Swift still makes an 825. It's the 7 x 36 Eaglet. Christophers at astronomics.com carries them. They are roof prisms but don't have phase coating. About $330.00. They got a nice writeup in the February issue of "Birder's World" in the feature on affordable binoculars. They are built along the lines of and are reminiscent of the old Leica 7 x 35 Trinovid.

Unfortunately, Swift model numbers sometimes get used for different products. This is a case in point. The orginal Swift 825 7x35 HWCF was designated the "Compact Audubon (Armored) - Wide Angle" (428 ft.). It used a 4-lens ocular and magenta fully coated optics with multi-coating on the ocular and objective lenses. There is no mention of it being phase coated, and we can safely assume it wasn't. It was sold at least until 1991. The current 7x36 Eaglet really isn't the same binocular although it's a similar configuration. To my knowledge it's not called an Audubon, which excludes it from such exclusive company (for us purists ). The Model 827 roof Audubon was sold into the late 1990s, and received a nice review by Steve Ingraham. I believe there is also another current Swift product model 827, but not called an Audubon. The current HHS 828 Audubon is a really neat, modern roof binocular with phase coating. It has received good marks from BVD, and I also recommend it highly as a moderate cost roof with adequate FOV.

The classic BVD comparison between the 804 vs. 820 Audubons has been confounded by the fact that there are two 804 models involved. Steve Ingraham's comparison in the early 1990s used model 804 HR/5 (Type 4b(1)), which was marked multi-coated optics (MC). The later 804 HR/5 (Type 4b(2)) was marked fully muti-coated (FMC) just like the current Model 820. Steve seemed to think the 820 was slightly better optically than the 4b(1). His opinion that the 804 ED (Type 4c) was also slightly better, and worth the huge price difference, was similarly blurred by the fact that the use of ED glass was not the only distinction; it was FMC and had air-spaced objective lenses to boot.

Steve Carter at Swift feels that both 804 HR/5 models, as well as the 804R, were fully multicoated (FMC). My own opinion is that even though expert reviewers like Steve Ingraham are highly credible, an unavoidable observer bias (e.g., that FMC, or ED glass, should improve the optics) could easily account for the tenuous differences reported. There is a fundamental limitation to a methodology wherein an observer knows what the advertised design differences are before making subjective evaluations.

My personal preference for the 804 vs. 820 is similarly biased by the fact that I really like the weight and balance, and solid construction of the 804R, and believe they are optically equivalent. As a collector, of course, I would buy an 804 ED if one came my way.

Basically, you can't go wrong with any of them.

Ed
PS. Renze gets the first 825 to come along — probably. :king:

I checked around, and can't find anybody stocking Swift in the area. Is there a reason that very few places seem to handle this brand? From what I have seen in rifle scopes, and my binoculars, they are a good quality product. While I would like a little more magnification, I would like to compare my binoculars with the newer models before jumping up and buying/selling. Anybody know of a stocking dealer in the Dallas, Texas area?

one eye joe said:

I checked around, and can't find anybody stocking Swift in the area. Is there a reason that very few places seem to handle this brand? From what I have seen in rifle scopes, and my binoculars, they are a good quality product. While I would like a little more magnification, I would like to compare my binoculars with the newer models before jumping up and buying/selling. Anybody know of a stocking dealer in the Dallas, Texas area?

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Joe,

You might try the company's dealer locator:
http://www.swift-optics.com/corporate/salescontact.php

Eagle Optics also stocks them and has a 30 day return policy.

Ed

On a recent visit to the local astronomy shop I like a lot, I saw that they still had the Swift Audubon 825s. These are probably the same ones that I bought and returned a few years ago. The Swift Audubon 804s that he used to have all been sold.

I tried the 825s again just for kicks. Very sharp -- nice image. Eye relief still not good enough for me as a glasses wearer. Not as bright as newer mid-priced roof prisms. But they don't make binocs like these anymore. The 7x35 configuration, the small elegant body. The all-metal construction. Really nice -- and at the time they came out, as the Swift Audubon history thread points out, the 825s were a less-expensive alternative to the Leitz Trinovid 7x35. The high-performing but less-expensive alternative to premium brands is something Swift has always done well.

The price tag on the 825s said $379. Seems a bit steep to me. But maybe the owner is aware that these binocs have some collector value.

trashbird said:

On a recent visit to the local astronomy shop I like a lot, I saw that they still had the Swift Audubon 825s. These are probably the same ones that I bought and returned a few years ago. The Swift Audubon 804s that he used to have all been sold.

I tried the 825s again just for kicks. Very sharp -- nice image. Eye relief still not good enough for me as a glasses wearer. Not as bright as newer mid-priced roof prisms. But they don't make binocs like these anymore. The 7x35 configuration, the small elegant body. The all-metal construction. Really nice -- and at the time they came out, as the Swift Audubon history thread points out, the 825s were a less-expensive alternative to the Leitz Trinovid 7x35. The high-performing but less-expensive alternative to premium brands is something Swift has always done well.

The price tag on the 825s said $379. Seems a bit steep to me. But maybe the owner is aware that these binocs have some collector value.

Click to expand...

Trashbird,

I don't have the data at hand, but I believe $379 may well have been the MSRP in 1991. Do you recall if these had gold dots, which appeared about that time? Do you mind sharing the name and location of the shop?

Thanks,
Ed

elkcub said:

Trashbird,

I don't have the data at hand, but I believe $379 may well have been the MSRP in 1991. Do you recall if these had gold dots, which appeared about that time? Do you mind sharing the name and location of the shop?

Thanks,
Ed

Click to expand...

Ed,

Here is the contact info:

Stellar Vision & The Astronomy Shop
1835 S. Alvernon Way, #206
Tucson, AZ 85711
Ph: 520-571-0877

I don't recall anything about gold dots. If you call, the owner may be able to give you more information about the 825s. He has a huge selection of different brands and models of binoculars, new and used -- so you might need to get pretty specific about exactly which one the 825 is. He's a helpful and friendly guy, though. I've done a lot of business there.

-- Jim

Trashbird,

I've determined that they are gold dots. Maybe they all were. Also some facts for an addendum to our article: They were made by B-35, Raito Koki Seisakujo, Co. Ltd. probably in 1989. Note that this is a departure from Hiyoshi Kogaku, B-56, and calls into question Alison Swift's belief that all the Audubons were made by the same company. She may have meant all the porro Audubons (after Tamron stopped about 1970).

Many thanks,
Ed

elkcub said:

Trashbird,

I've determined that they are gold dots. Maybe they all were. Also some facts for an addendum to our article: The were made by B-35, Raito Koki Seisakujo, Co. Ltd. probably in 1989. Note that this is a departure from Hiyoshi Kogaku, B-56, and calls into question Alison Swift's belief that all the Audubons were made by the same company. She may have meant all the porro Audubons (after Tamron stopped about 1970).

Many thanks,
Ed

Click to expand...

Ed, where would the gold dot be? On mine there is a circle with what appears to be a R in it. figured that is the registered trademark logo, as it is under the end of the Audubon name. The MSRP in 1989 was $575 as per the customer service rep at Swift that I talked to. Actually, the $375 might not be too awfully high for a mint pair. Wish I had the luxury of comparison on mine against the newer ones. Mine seem plenty bright to me. If the newer ones are better, that would almost be scary.

one eye joe said:

Ed, where would the gold dot be? On mine there is a circle with what appears to be a R in it. figured that is the registered trademark logo, as it is under the end of the Audubon name. The MSRP in 1989 was $575 as per the customer service rep at Swift that I talked to. Actually, the $375 might not be too awfully high for a mint pair. Wish I had the luxury of comparison on mine against the newer ones. Mine seem plenty bright to me. If the newer ones are better, that would almost be scary.

Click to expand...

Joe,

I'm referring to a 1/2 in. gold Swift logo usually glued on below the right cover plate on the front of the prism housing. It says "SWIFT" and has their standard reticule. Other series use a blue "dot," but in the US I believe the "gold dot" first started in the early 90s. Before that it was not used (I think).

The 1995 Eagle Optics catalog is very informative since it shows the MSRP and their price for five different "Audubon" models:


So the 825's 1989 price went up by $100 by 1995. The Standard 804 and 826 model's trading range is $100-200 nowadays, depending on condition and bidding passion. I just bought a pair of near mint 804 EDs for about $360, so they do retain their value. One reason, I think, is that the superb Type 4 optics are no less useful in the field than the day they were hatched. The early large body models, although still eminently usable, were not multi-coated and trade in the $75-175 range. Some bidders may not realize there is a difference.

I don't know for sure, but my impression is that the 825s were never phase coated. Hence, I would guess that yours are as good as the later model, gold dot or not. Moreover, being the original issue they may be more attractive to a collector — who values age and condition. Hold on to 'em.

Ed

I also have a pair of 825 Audubon 7x35s

one eye joe said:

Hi,

I am new to this forum, and would like some help from you guys. I have a pair of Swift Audubon's I bought in the mid-late 80's. They are a model 825 7x35. I have not seen these talked about. Is there anything special, good,bad, or otherwise. I have enjoyed them very much, and the optics are great. I am thinking about maybe going to the 828, but havent decided. Are the binoculars still manufactured in Japan? I see where the rifle scopes are made in Korea now. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

I bought a nice pair of Swift 825 Audubon 7x35s at a pawn shop about 10 years ago. I think I paid $25 for them because the people running the pawn shop (and me) had never heard of the Swift brand. They were in like new condition. I agree that they are pretty nice binoculars. I have really enjoyed using them. They don't have the resolution for the farthest or smallest targets like a nice 10x50 but they are nice and light for general use.

David Enoch