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Rats on Lundy (1 Viewer)

Should the Lundy Rats be Eliminated?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 14 82.4%
  • No!

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • Not Sure.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17
As we know, there are quite a few culling issues going on at the moment - and it's often very difficult to decide the "correct" course of action.

But surely this is as much of a no-brainer as you can get.

Yes!
 
"It will be hard to shoot every duck and for goodness sake we are talking about coldly killing 6,000 living things"

Andrew this one of your post's from The ruddy duck cull Thread
Make your mind up.

So I say no, tired of reading about what we are going to cull next..
 
I did say that, but have agreed with the Ruddy Duck cull in general.

The rats are not birds which clouds my judgement but they, like the RD, are introduced by man and we have to do the nasty cold killing for the sake of the birds nesting on the island.

Sorry for the contradiction. Rats do not get any sympathy from me despite being living things.
 
Black rats are one of our rarest, if not the rarest mammals!!

SAVE THE BLACK RAT, CULL A BUREAUCRAT
 
Post your vote Steve please.

So, if they are rare where is their original source (country). Do you mean internationally rare or just in this country?

(PS : Looks like you did so ignore the first line)
 
Animal rights campaigners have called for an end to a £50,000 cull of rats aimed at saving a colony of rare seabirds.
Conservationists are to kill thousands of rats on Lundy Island to protect the rocky outcrop's puffin and Manx shearwater populations.

But animal protection organisation Animal Aid believes reasoning behind the mass extermination on the island in the Bristol Channel is flawed.

It wants the groups behind the cull - including the RSPB, (WHAT A SUPRISE!!!!}English Nature and the National Trust - to call it off and find another way of restoring the balance between the island's birds and rats.

Mass extermination

English Nature has called in experts to lay traps and get rid of the rats, which it says are putting the seabirds at risk by eating their eggs and chicks.

But Animal Aid campaigns oficer Becky Lilly said: "This is an attempt to restore ecological harmony through wholesale slaughter.

"It is not the way forward - in this case more controls on commercial fishing, management of pollution and protection of breeding sites would help boost the seabird population."

It is feared up to 40,000 rats which have arrived on the island from visiting boats are behind a drop in the bird population.

But Animal Aid says the species at the centre of the Lundy Island cull, the black rat, is one of the rarest mammals in the UK, while neither the shearwater nor the puffin are endangered species.

It says rats have lived on the island for more than 400 years, while the bird population has only begun to decline in the past 60 years.

The group says killing off one species to save another is "absurd" and worries that poison put down to kill rats could harm other animals.
 
A good response but I have to say that the Black Rat being a rare species in the UK is insignificant because these are not genuine residents. They were brought in from outside, could the same thing apply to any other species brought into the UK in future? It could set a precedent for any introduced species, I believe it is harsh but neccessary to say all introduced species should be eliminated if they pose a threat to other resident species such as these rats, mink, Ruddy Ducks and any others I do not know about.

The sea birds used to be numerous on Lundy, it was easy to see flocks of Puffins and now that is not the case last time I read about the island.

You are proving culling certainly is an evocative subject and it is great to hear from the other side of the fence.
 
Insignificant because its not a genuine resident!!!
Have you taken leave of your senses? its been here since the romans, how resident has it got to be???????????
 
Its the same thing andrew, it got to lundy by boat from yhe mainland? is the isle of wight fox different from the portsmouth fox? I think not!!
 
Andrew your on very dangerous ground , suggesting that man should correct his mistakes They are to numerous . I will withdraw and wish you good luck with your support for culls.

Good topic to debate though:t:
 
There may, or may not have been Black Rats on Lundy continuously for 400 years ( I don't have proof either way, Animal Aid must have! ). The Black Rat is not an endangered species, and as Steve states probably arrived with the Romans!.
Is it a good idea to slaughter them?. Well, if they are responsible for the reductions in the Bird life, then yes. I prefer not to use the word Cull. As pointed out in another thread it means to remove a few. Slaughter, not correct either. The report doesn't say they will be killed with an axe or a humane killer. Eradicate sounds about right.
unless of course Animal Aid has a better idea of how to remove the rats, and to fund it themselves!. Animal aid is only ever against things, or, leave thing to take their own course ( rats kill off birds. rats die no food. Problems solved!). Oh sorry. Animal Aid also regrets humans ( shouldn't be so many ).

Oh by the way. Animal Aid is also afraid that other wildlife will suffer from the poison. The report posted by Steve says traps not poison!.

But animal protection organisation Animal Aid believes reasoning behind the mass extermination on the island in the Bristol Channel is flawed. " It wants the groups behind the cull - including the RSPB, (WHAT A SUPRISE!!!!}English Nature and the National Trust - to call it off and find another way of restoring the balance between the island's birds and rats. Oh, Pray tell how!.

I get the cynicism through reading the UK.REC. Bird Watching news group and see the way they use SPAM. I once had sympathy. But not any more!.

Anyway.
Extracted from : http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/rattus/r._rattus$narrative.html


Economic Importance for Humans
^ Negative
The black rat is economically important in terms of damaging food stores and as a transmitter of diseases like the bubonic plague, typhus, food poisoning, and trichinosis. Rat-borne diseases are thought to have taken more human lives in the last ten centuries than all the wars and revolutions ever fought. One subspecies, Rattus rattus brevicaudatus, has even caused famines. It consumes and destroys food stores and carries epidemics and diseases with its fleas, urine, and dirt (Grzimek 1990). Black rats gnaw through insulation from electrical wires, sometimes causing fires. They also kill poultry, domestic livestock, and game birds. Through predation and competition, they have contributed to the endangerment or extinction of many species of wildlife (Nowak 1991).
^ Conservation
Status: no special status
Populations of R. rattus are stable. Five subspecies exist: Rattus rattus alexandrinus (Alexandria black rat), Rattus rattus brevicaudatus (Sawah rat), Rattus rattus diardii (Malayan black rat), Rattus rattus frugivorous (fruit rat), and Rattus rattus rattus (black rat).

Alan
 
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Ive been to Lundy a few times over the years, and I would recomend it to anyone, it's a beautifull place!! It's a hard choice to make......if the various groups have done some research and it is proven that the rat is the cause of the decline and then that may sway my judgement.Could it not be to do with over fishing or tourists maybe ???

Nobody like's to hear of declining bird populations, and I guess nobody really has feeling for rat's(tame or rare)......

On to my view;) I think if the rat's are a serious threat to the island then they should be culled!!Cuz I like birds more than rat's, sorry rat fan's.......yeah!!(say's Roland ;) )
 
Economic Importance for Humans
^ Negative
The black rat is economically important in terms of damaging food stores and as a transmitter of diseases like the bubonic plague, typhus, food poisoning, and trichinosis. Rat-borne diseases are thought to have taken more human lives in the last ten centuries than all the wars and revolutions ever fought. One subspecies, Rattus rattus brevicaudatus, has even caused famines. It consumes and destroys food stores and carries epidemics and diseases with its fleas, urine, and dirt (Grzimek 1990). Black rats gnaw through insulation from electrical wires, sometimes causing fires. They also kill poultry, domestic livestock, and game birds. Through predation and competition, they have contributed to the endangerment or extinction of many species of wildlife (Nowak 1991).
^ Conservation
Status: no special status
Populations of R. rattus are stable. Five subspecies exist: Rattus rattus alexandrinus (Alexandria black rat), Rattus rattus brevicaudatus (Sawah rat), Rattus rattus diardii (Malayan black rat), Rattus rattus frugivorous (fruit rat), and Rattus rattus rattus (black rat).


COULD READ AS




Economic Importance of Humans for Black Rats
^ Negative
The Human is economically important in terms of damaging food stores and as a transmitter of diseases like aids, syphalus, typhoid, food poisoning, and tuburculoses. human diseases are thought to have taken more human lives in the last ten centuries than all the wars and revolutions ever fought. many Humans have even caused famines.they consume and destroy food stores and carry epidemics and diseases with blood, urine, and dirt (Steve 2003). Some Humans sometimes cause fires. They also kill poultry, domestic livestock, and game birds, and each other Through predation and competition, they have contributed to the endangerment or extinction of many species of wildlife (Steve 2003).
^ Conservation
Status: no special status
Populations of humans:sapian thickus, manus dumus ,people wrongus . They outnumber most species of animal life on the planet, they have no natural predators, and decide at will which other species to cull.
 
That's the basic thinking behind my stance. Rats are not nice! However, I believe there is a serious argument for the culling of rats and yet there is also a good argument for holding back first to study other factors like Stuart mentions.

As Alan asked, how do we control them? There are various ratting groups who have Jack Russels (Clarrissa & The Countryman) and they could be used to keep the population down. I fear this alone would not work as Rats breed phenomenally (did I spell that right?). So we will need to have regulated trappings.

We could release the trapped rats after neutering them?

Whatever is decided I do not think they can be controlled as they breed too fast so complete exermination is neccessary, but only if they are proven to be the cause of the reduction in breeding seabirds.
 
Your whole argument is Based on Emotion andrew, you dont like rats! rats are not nice you say, that is a ridiculous Emotive argument you cant believe in Culling one species and Not another, either your for culling or against it, You cant pick and choose which animal you like and which you dont. Grrrrrrrrrrrr

I refer you to your Ruddy duck posts.
 
Up to 5 litters per year at 6-10 young. Cannot rememberat what age they can re-produce.

So Steve, what would you suggest is to be done?.
 
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