Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Timaliidae

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Saturday 3rd September 2011, 13:38   #1
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Timaliidae

Collar 2011. Taxonomic notes on some Asian babblers (Timaliidae). Forktail 27: 100-102.

Follows up from Collar 2006. A partial revision of the Asian babblers (Timaliidae). Forktail 22: 85-112.
  • Rhinocichla [Garrulax] (mitrata) treacheri treated as a species - Collar & Robson 2007 (HBW 12), Chestnut-hooded Laughingthrush.

  • Liocichla (phoenicea) ripponi treated as a species - Collar & Robson 2007, Scarlet-faced Liocichla.

  • Jabouilleia [Rimator] naungmungensis treated as a ssp of J danjoui - Collar & Robson 2007, Indochinese Wren-babbler.

  • New ssp of Blue-winged Siva: Siva cyanouroptera wirthi subsp. nov. - Bolaven Plateau, Laos.

  • Reassignment of ssp woodi from Chestnut-crowned Laughingthrush Garrulax [Trochalopteron] (erythrocephalus) erythrocephalus to Assam Laughingthrush G [T] (e) chrysopterus - Collar & Robson 2007 (but may change...).
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 4th September 2011, 06:29   #2
MJB
Registered User
 
MJB's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Holt
Posts: 4,472
Richard,
I won't see Forktail until I get back to UK. Are there any interesting changes in the westernmost taxa?
MJB
__________________
The fuzziness of all supposedly absolute taxonomic distinctions - Stephen Jay Gould (1977) "Ever Since Darwin: Reflections in Natural History".
Species and subspecies are but a convenient fiction - Kees van Deemter (2010), "In praise of vagueness". Biology is messy
MJB is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 4th September 2011, 06:42   #3
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
Are there any interesting changes in the westernmost taxa?
No, Mike. These are the only changes, and most are already implemented in HBW 12 anyway. No impact on the OSME Region List.
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th January 2012, 19:06   #4
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,696
Timaliidae

Moyle R, Andersen M, Oliveros C, Steinheimer F, Reddy S (2012). Phylogeny and biogeography of the core babblers (Aves: Timaliidae). Systematic Biology.

Abstract:
The avian family Timaliidae is a species rich and morphologically diverse component of African and Asian tropical forests. The morphological diversity within the family has attracted interest from ecologists and evolutionary biologists, but systematists have long suspected that this diversity might also mislead taxonomy, and recent molecular phylogenetic work has supported this hypothesis. We produced and analyzed a dataset of six genes and almost 300 individuals to assess the evolutionary history of the family. Although phylogenetic analysis required extensive adjustment of program settings, we ultimately produced a well-resolved phylogeny for the family. The resulting phylogeny provided strong support for major subclades within the family but extensive paraphyly of genera. Only three genera represented by more than three species were monophyletic. Biogeographic reconstruction indicated a mainland Asian origin for the family and most major clades. Colonization of Africa, Sundaland, and the Philippines occurred relatively late in the family’s history and was mostly unidirectional. Several putative babbler genera, such as Robsonius, Malia, Leonardina, and Micromacronus are only distantly related to the Timaliidae.

http://datadryad.org/handle/10255/dryad.36483
https://www.birdmeetings.org/cosaous...bstractID=5747
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th January 2012, 19:37   #5
andrew147
Registered User
 
andrew147's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 140
"...Several putative babbler genera, such as Robsonius, Malia, Leonardina, and Micromacronus are only distantly related to the Timaliidae..."

Is there any information regarding their likely affinities?
andrew147 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th January 2012, 07:11   #6
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew147 View Post
"...Several putative babbler genera, such as Robsonius, Malia, Leonardina, and Micromacronus are only distantly related to the Timaliidae..."

Is there any information regarding their likely affinities?
See supplementary figures: http://datadryad.org/handle/10255/dryad.36483
If you don't have PostScript Viewer you can download and install e.g. GPL Ghostscript (then you must download and install GSview for your OS too).
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th January 2012, 11:20   #7
Daniel Philippe
Registered User
 
Daniel Philippe's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
If you don't have PostScript Viewer you can download and install e.g. GPL Ghostscript (then you must download and install GSview for your OS too).
Or ... see attachment.

1st page: Average Standard Deviation of Split Frequencies plot.
2nd page: Consensus tree from Bayesian analysis of the mtDNA alone.
3rd page: Consensus tree from Bayesian analysis of the MUSK intron alone.
4th page: Consensus tree from Bayesian analysis of the Fibrinogen 5 intron alone.
5th page: Consensus tree from Bayesian analysis of the TGF5 intron alone.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Moyle et al, Supp Fig.pdf (105.3 KB, 178 views)

Last edited by Daniel Philippe : Friday 13th January 2012 at 11:32.
Daniel Philippe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th January 2012, 11:39   #8
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Philippe View Post
Or ... see attachment.
A marvellous mishmash of babblers clade.
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th January 2012, 12:32   #9
Ben Wielstra
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 123
Awesome! Too bad we cannot see the tree presented in the article yet. Systematic Biology does not seem to have early online papers.
Ben Wielstra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th January 2012, 16:30   #10
dnsallen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: glos
Posts: 280
So is Robsonius really a Bradypterus/Locustella? The song and its furtiveness would certainly fit.
dnsallen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 07:28   #11
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Moyle et al

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
Moyle R, Andersen M, Oliveros C, Steinheimer F, Reddy S (2012). Phylogeny and biogeography of the core babblers (Aves: Timaliidae). Systematic Biology.
Published online 10 Feb 2012 (advance access): [abstract]
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 10:38   #12
Markus Lagerqvist
Registered User
 
Markus Lagerqvist's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Klim View Post
Published online 10 Feb 2012 (advance access): [abstract]
Does anyone have the full paper?
Would be very interested to read it!
__________________
Latest bird lifer: East Brazilian Pygmy Owl (#5,437)
Latest bird family: Donacobius (#215)
Latest mammal lifer: Geoffroy's Tufted-ear Marmoset (#322)
Web page: pbase.com/lagerqvist
Markus Lagerqvist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 12:04   #13
Daniel Philippe
Registered User
 
Daniel Philippe's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,004
Stachyris rodolphei

... is back.

I thought it was an aberrant Stachyris (now Cyanoderma) r. rufifrons.

Daniel Philippe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 16:34   #14
jacana
Will Jones
 
jacana's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posts: 4,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Philippe View Post
... is back.

I thought it was an aberrant Stachyris (now Cyanoderma) r. rufifrons.

IOC still has it as Stachyridopsis rodolphei at the last count.

It will be interesting to read this paper in full
__________________
Latest Lifer: Hazel Grouse (2043)
Latest UK Lifer: Ross's Gull (318)
Latest Sweden Lifer: Eurasian Hoopoe (264)
Latest World 2018: Caspian Gull (519)
jacana is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 18:01   #15
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,696
Taxonomic Recommendations

Moyle R, Andersen M, Oliveros C, Steinheimer F, Reddy S (2012). Phylogeny and biogeography of the core babblers (Aves: Timaliidae). Systematic Biology.
Taxonomic recommendations:

Timaliidae

1. Timaliinae
- Timalia (pileata)
- Mixornis ([Macronus] gularis, flavicollis, kelleyi)
- Dumetia (hyperythra)
- Rhopocichla (atriceps)
- Macronus (striaticeps, ptilosus)
- Cyanoderma ([Stachyris] chrysaeum, erythropterum, melanothorax, pyrrhops, ruficeps, ambiguum, rufifrons)
- Spelaeornis (caudatus, badeigularis, troglodytoides, formosus, chocolatinus, longicaudatus)
- Pomatorhinus (ferruginosus, ochraceiceps, ruficollis, horsfieldii, schisticeps, montanus, [Xiphirhynchus] superciliaris)
- Megapomatorhinus ([Pomatorhinus] hypoleucos, erythrocnemis, erythrogenys, swinhoei)
- Stachyris (grammiceps, nigricollis, maculata, nigriceps, poliocephala, leucotis, thoracica, oglei, striolata, rodolphei, herberti, nonggangensis, [Sphenocichla] humei)

2. Pellorneinae
- Malacopteron (palawanense, magnirostre, affine, cinereum, magnum, albogulare)
- Gampsorhynchus (rufulus)
- Schoeniparus ([Alcippe] cinereus, castaneceps, rufogularis, brunneus, dubius)
- Illadopsis (fulvescens, rufipennis, pyrrhoptera, cleaveri, albipectus, rufescens, puveli, [Ptyrticus] turdina)
- Pellorneum (ruficeps, capistratum, fuscocapillus, palustre, albiventre, tickelli, pyrrogenys, [Malacocincla] malaccense, cinereiceps, [Trichastoma] rostratum, celebense, bicolor)
- Kenopia (striata)
- Napothera (epilepidota, [Jabouilleia] danjoui, naungmungensis, [Rimator] malacoptila)
- Ptilocichla (leucogrammica, mindanensis, falcata)
- Turdinus ([Malacocincla] abbotti, sepiarius, perspicillatus, [Napothera] macrodactylus, rufipectus, atrigularis, marmoratus, crispifrons, brevicaudatus, crassus)
- Graminicola (bengalensis)

3. Leiothrichinae
- Alcippe (variegaticeps, ludlowi, brunneicauda, poioicephala, morrisonia, pyrrhoptera, peracensis, nipalensis, grotei)
- Grammatoptila ([Garrulax] striata)
- Cutia (nipalensis)
- Turdoides (nipalensis, altirostris, caudata, earlei, gularis, longirostris, malcolmi, squamiceps, fulva, aylmeri, rubiginosa, subrufa, striata, rufescens, affinis, reinwardtii, tenebrosa, sharpie, hartlaubii, melanops, squamulata, leucopygia, bicolor, hypoleuca, hindei, leucocephala, plebejus, jardineii, gymnogenys, [Kupeornis] gilberti, rufocincta, chapini, [Phyllanthus] atripennis)
- Garrulax (cinereifrons, palliatus, rufifrons, perspicillatus, leucolophus, monileger, lugubris, strepitans, milleti, maesi, merulinus, canorus)
- Ianthocincla ([Garrulax] sukatschewi, cineracea, rufogularis, konkakinhensis, ocellata, lunulata, bieti, maxima, pectoralis, albogularis, ruficollis, nuchalis, chinensis, vassali, galbana, delesserti, gularis, davidi, caerulata, poecilorhyncha, mitrata, sannio, [Babax] lanceolata, waddelli, koslowi)
- Trochalopteron ([Garrulax] cachinnans, jerdoni, lineatum, virgatum, subunicolor, austeni, squamatum, elliotii, variegatum, henrici, affinis, morrisonianum, erythrocephalum, ngoclinhensis, yersini, formosum, milnei)
- Heterophasia (capistrata, gracilis, melanoleuca, desgodinsi, auricularis, pulchella, picaoides)
- Leiothrix (argentauris, lutea)
- Minla (ignotincta, [Heterophasia] annectans)
- Crocias (langbianis, albonotatus)
- Liocichla (omeiensis, bugunorum, steerii, phoenicea)
- Actinodura (sodangorum, nipalensis, waldeni, souliei, morrisoniana, egertoni, ramsayi, [Minla] cyanouroptera, strigula)
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th February 2012, 20:29   #16
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
- Trochalopteron ([Garrulax] cachinnans, jerdoni, lineatum, virgatum, subunicolor, austeni, squamatum, elliotii, variegatum, henrici, affinis, morrisonianum, erythrocephalum, ngoclinhensis, yersini, formosum, milnei)
It seems churlish to nit-pick such an impressive work, but Trochalopteron affinis should probably be T affine.
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 12th February 2012, 05:11   #17
mb1848
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Santa Maria, California USA
Posts: 1,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Klim View Post
It seems churlish to nit-pick such an impressive work, but Trochalopteron affinis should probably be T affine.
Churlish? It is what we do best nit picking. The bird was described by Houghton in Blyth as Garrulax? affinis. Crateropus affinis, Hodgs. Journ. As. Soc. Beng. 1843, 950. Jerdon did call it Trochalopteron affine. The Birds of India being a natural history of all the birds known to inhabit... p. 46. Garrulax is male. Trochalopteron is neutral. I guess Crateropus is male. Hodgson called it the Allied Garrulax. I wonder if there is some rule that does not require it to be the neutral form? Allied or affinity is an adjective so it must be the same gender of the genus?
mb1848 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 12th February 2012, 07:58   #18
Daniel Philippe
Registered User
 
Daniel Philippe's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,004
Gelang, M., 2012. Babblers, biogeography and Bayesian reasoning. Department of Zoology - Stockholm University: i-v, 1-15.

Full thesis (pdf format) available from there.

Last edited by Daniel Philippe : Sunday 12th February 2012 at 08:10.
Daniel Philippe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 12th February 2012, 10:04   #19
Ben Wielstra
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 123
The one genus missing in the new Moyle et al. study is Crocias. They place it between Minla (including Red-tailed Minla and Rufous-backed Sibia) and Liocichla. There is no explanation provided for this. Any idea why this is? (It looks a bit like Rufous-backed Sibia, is that why?)
Ben Wielstra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 12th February 2012, 11:58   #20
Ben Wielstra
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 123
I am confused of the use of Turdinus --> Turdinus ([Malacocincla] abbotti, sepiarius, perspicillatus, [Napothera] macrodactylus, rufipectus, atrigularis, marmoratus, crispifrons, brevicaudatus, crassus)

The Taxonomy in Flux website uses Turdines for marmoratus, macrodactylus, rufipectus, atrigularis and not the other taxa (based on Collar HBW I presume). Given the sampling in Moyle and the other three studies cited to justify the taxonomic recommendations, the conclusion to include the other taxa cannot be made. Am I missing something? The only reason I can come up with is that Graminicola, excluded in the presented data and sister to macrodactylus in Gelang et al 2009 hinted towards this...
Ben Wielstra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 12th February 2012, 14:57   #21
Mysticete
Registered User
 
Mysticete's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,521
looks like another Moyle study where suggested family level taxonomy is ignored by everyone else....
__________________
World: 1193, ABA: 626
Last Lifer: Louisiana Waterthrush
Last ABA:Louisiana Waterthrush
Mammal: 228 Herp: 174
Mysticete is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 13th February 2012, 12:28   #22
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Klim View Post
It seems churlish to nit-pick such an impressive work, but Trochalopteron affinis should probably be T affine.
Good catch. If I were one of the authors of the paper I'd appreciate it. Maybe it's not too late to fix it.
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 24th February 2012, 15:16   #23
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 2,696
TiF changes February 24:
http://jboyd.net/Taxo/changes.html
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 24th February 2012, 15:31   #24
Mysticete
Registered User
 
Mysticete's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,521
So is there any recent papers that advocate splitting out the Sylviidae and recognizing Paradoxornithidae? Or is this a completely novel suggestion by Tif. The tree they have presented certainly doesn't suggest that it needs to be done, since Sylviidae and Paradoxornithidae together still represent a monophyletic group.
__________________
World: 1193, ABA: 626
Last Lifer: Louisiana Waterthrush
Last ABA:Louisiana Waterthrush
Mammal: 228 Herp: 174
Mysticete is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th August 2012, 17:50   #25
Richard Klim
-------------------------
 
Richard Klim's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
Posts: 12,792
Philippine 'babblers'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
Moyle R, Andersen M, Oliveros C, Steinheimer F, Reddy S (2012). Phylogeny and biogeography of the core babblers (Aves: Timaliidae). Systematic Biology.
Oliveros, Reddy & Moyle (in press). The phylogenetic position of some Philippine "babblers" spans the muscicapoid and sylvioid bird radiations. Mol Phylogenet Evol. [abstract]
Richard Klim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Actinodura (Timaliidae) Peter Kovalik Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature 2 Saturday 17th July 2010 10:08

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.27513504 seconds with 36 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 02:59.