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Rallidae

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Old Sunday 12th October 2014, 08:57   #26
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What does "crown group" mean?
Wikipedia: Crown group.
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Old Sunday 12th October 2014, 09:07   #27
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Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
What does "crown group" mean?

Also struggling to find the type species of the family - or any member of the type genus - in their phylogeny (Figs. 2, 3), doesn't help understand the family well
Crown group = monophyletic group formed by all the ancestors of extant species, back to their most recent common ancestor.
This is usually opposed to pan group = monophyletic group formed by the crown group, plus all the extinct species more closely related to it than to any extant species.
(As far as extant taxa are concerned, there is no difference.)

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Old Sunday 12th October 2014, 09:13   #28
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Thanks, though unfortunately not a lot of use as they don't explain which their crown group taxa are and aren't - are they excluding Rallus and Porzana from the crown group, given their exclusion of them from the data set?
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Old Sunday 12th October 2014, 10:52   #29
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The taxa that are included in the dataset are presumably just those for which a complete mitochondrial genome was available at the time of the analysis.

They estimate a date for the origin of the crown-group, which means the date when the most recent common ancestor of all extant rallids occured. This is of course different from the date of origin of the pan group, which would be the date of the divergence between the rallid lineage and its extant sister group.
Extant species are always (by definition of the term) all within the crown group of any taxon they belong to. The difference between crown and pan groups is only in which past taxa (either known from fossils, or just inferred to have existed from phylogenetic analyzes) are placed in the group together with these extant species.
(To be complete: species that are part of the pan group but not of the crown group are typically called "stem species"; they are all extinct by definition; together they may be referred as forming "the stem group"--although a "group" so-defined is always paraphyletic, hence not a "natural group" in the cladistic sense.)

Excluding Rallus from crown-group Rallidae is not possible: it is the type genus of the family, thus (unless you regard the family as invalid), it is a Rallidae by definition; and as it is extant, it is in the crown group of its family by definition. Porzana is extant as well, thus to exclude it from crown-group Rallidae would require to exclude it from the family--but no reasons exist to do this.

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Old Sunday 12th October 2014, 15:59   #30
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But the wikipedia diagram shows you can have more than one crown group in a taxon (family); annotating their diagram [by Peter coxhead, CC-BY-SA license], this could be the case . . .??
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Old Monday 13th October 2014, 07:52   #31
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Well, of course you can define a crown group at any taxonomic level. Thus if you have a family with two subfamilies, each subfamily can have its own crown group. But the crown group of the family will continue to include all the extant members of the family.
Additionally, all the current evidence indicates that Porzana (sensu stricto) is sister to the coots and moorhens, and not at all closely related to Rallus, which on the other hand is very close to Gallirallus. Thus each of the two members of your "right-side crown group" is closer to some members of your "left-side crown group" than they are to one another.

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Old Monday 13th October 2014, 18:11   #32
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Thanks! It's a pity that the authors didn't include the type species of the family, nor any species from the most speciose genus, in their data set. Poor preparation and planning.
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Old Monday 13th October 2014, 18:59   #33
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But the main aim of this work was to "use complete mitochondrial genomes to assess temporal diversification within Rallidae", not to solve all the relationships within the family.
If you want a more extensive taxon sampling (but a more gappy and imbalanced data set, which would presumably make dating more hazardous), you can always turn to their other study...:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...55790314003200
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image...003200-gr1.jpg
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image...003200-gr2.jpg
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image...003200-gr3.jpg
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image...003200-gr4.jpg
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image...003200-gr5.jpg

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Old Tuesday 14th October 2014, 06:56   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Philippe View Post
García-R J.C., Gibb G. & Trewick S., 2014. Deep global evolutionary radiation in birds: Diversification and trait evolution in the cosmopolitan bird family Rallidae. Mol. Phylogen. Evol. In press

abstract
Proposal (651) to SACC:

Resurrect Porphyriops for Gallinula melanops
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Old Tuesday 14th October 2014, 10:17   #35
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Thanks l_r!

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Shame it isn't publicly available anyone know how to get past the racketeers who are blocking access to sciencedirect?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
Proposal (651) to SACC:

Resurrect Porphyriops for Gallinula melanops
From this tree - if correct - not only does Gallinula melanops need to be split from Gallinula, but also G. ventralis and G. mortierii (already done by IOC, as Tribonyx); and more oddly, also Porzana needs to be split in two, with P. porzana [type!], P. carolina and P. fluminea in their "Fulica" clade, and P. parva, P. pusilla, etc. in their [presumably wrongly named!] "Porzana" clade. Can we look forward to Little & Baillon's Crakes etc., being transferred to Amaurornis? Might these additions bring in any older different genus names with them? Oh, and some other Porzana in their "Laterallus" clade, and a couple of Amaurornis in their "Gallicrex" clade . . . wot a mess!!

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Old Tuesday 14th October 2014, 11:23   #36
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and more oddly, also Porzana needs to be split in two, with P. porzana [type!], P. carolina and P. fluminea in their "Fulica" clade, and P. parva, P. pusilla, etc. in their [presumably wrongly named!] "Porzana" clade. Can we look forward to Little & Baillon's Crakes etc., being transferred to Amaurornis? Might these additions bring in any older different genus names with them? Oh, and some other Porzana in their "Laterallus" clade, and a couple of Amaurornis in their "Gallicrex" clade . . . wot a mess!!
There have been data hinting at this published since at least 2002--it's just that nobody seems to have seriously thought about translating them into a taxonomy until very recently...
See also my posts #3 and #13 in this thread.
The type of Amaurornis Reichenbach, 1853 is Gallinula olivacea Meyen, 1834 (by original designation): not included in the García-R et al study, but all other data sources show that it falls in their "Gallicrex" clade, thus the name can't be used for their "Porzana" group either. TiF and H&M4 use Zapornia Stephens, 1824 (type "Rallus pusillus Gmelin, 1789" = Rallus pusillus Pallas, 1776, by original monotypy) for this group.

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Old Wednesday 15th October 2014, 16:38   #37
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TiF and H&M4 use Zapornia Stephens, 1824 (type "Rallus pusillus Gmelin, 1789" = Rallus pusillus Pallas, 1776, by original monotypy) for this group.
Mmh. Looking at this a bit closer, the above seems in fact incorrect.

TiF and H&M4 actually take Zapornia from Leach, 1816, not from Stephens, 1824.

As it stands, this may be somewhat problematic, though. The only included species there is cited as Zapornia minuta. This species is neither described nor illustrated, and no other indication is given, thus (1) the species group name is certainly not made available there, and (2) the only way that the genus-group name can be deemed to have been made available, is through its use in combination with an available specific name (under Article 12.2.5). In other words, "Zapornia minuta" must be a recombination of a species name that was made available somewhere else--or there is no "Zapornia Leach". Is there any other plausible candidate than Rallus minutus Gmelin, 1789, based on "Le Petit Râle de Cayenne" of Buffon = Rallus flaviventer Boddaert, 1783...?

EDIT - No, OK, I get it: Gallinula minuta Montagu, 1813 is the type species (same specimen as listed by Leach, shot in 1809 by W. Tucker, Esq., at Ashburton, Devon--here described and named as a new species).

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Old Saturday 25th October 2014, 14:57   #38
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Porzana vs Zapornia

How can Zapornia have priority over Porzana when Leach (1816) not even delivered a proper description for the genus Zapornia?

http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/i...ge/44/mode/1up
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Old Saturday 25th October 2014, 15:12   #39
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How can Zapornia have priority over Porzana when Leach (1816) not even delivered a proper description for the genus Zapornia?

http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/i...ge/44/mode/1up
The relevant article of the Code is 12.2.5

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12.1. Requirements. To be available, every new name published before 1931 must satisfy the provisions of Article 11 and must be accompanied by a description or a definition of the taxon that it denotes, or by an indication.

12.2. Indications. For the purposes of this Article the word "indication" denotes only the following:
...
12.2.5. in the case of a new genus-group name, the use of one or more available specific names in combination with it, or clearly included under it, or clearly referred to it by bibliographic reference, provided that the specific name or names can be unambiguously assigned to a nominal species-group taxon or taxa;
So no description is required, although the availability of the name depends on whether the association with Montagu's name is really "unambiguous".
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Old Tuesday 28th October 2014, 07:06   #40
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TiF

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Originally Posted by Daniel Philippe View Post
García-R J.C., Gibb G. & Trewick S., 2014. Deep global evolutionary radiation in birds: Diversification and trait evolution in the cosmopolitan bird family Rallidae. Mol. Phylogen. Evol. In press abstract
John Boyd (TiF):
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/changes.html (27 Oct 2014)
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List6.html#rallidae
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/Rallidae.pdf

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Old Saturday 1st November 2014, 06:35   #41
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SACC Proposal 652

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Philippe View Post
García-R J.C., Gibb G. & Trewick S., 2014. Deep global evolutionary radiation in birds: Diversification and trait evolution in the cosmopolitan bird family Rallidae. Mol. Phylogen. Evol. In press

abstract
Proposal (652) to SACC:
Transfer Porzana flaviventer and Porzana spiloptera to Laterallus
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Old Tuesday 20th January 2015, 05:31   #42
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Proposal (651) to SACC:

Resurrect Porphyriops for Gallinula melanops
PASSED (17 January 2015)
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Old Tuesday 20th January 2015, 07:37   #43
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Mustelirallus

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Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
Proposal (650) to SACC:
Resurrect monotypic genus Mustelirallus for Porzana albicollis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
Resurrect Mustelirallus for Porzana albicollis and transfer Neocrex to Mustelirallus
Proposal passed, 17 Jan 2015: PROPOSAL ROSTER.
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Old Friday 23rd January 2015, 20:06   #44
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Proposal (652) to SACC:
Transfer Porzana flaviventer and Porzana spiloptera to Laterallus
Proposal did not pass, Jan 2015: RECENT CHANGES.
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Old Friday 8th May 2015, 10:08   #45
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Canirallus

Quote:
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García-R J.C., Gibb G. & Trewick S., 2014. Deep global evolutionary radiation in birds: Diversification and trait evolution in the cosmopolitan bird family Rallidae. Mol. Phylogen. Evol. In press abstract
IOC World Bird List v5.3 (Draft).
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/update-diary/
Quote:
2015 May 7: Move Canirallus rails from Rallidae to Saruthruridae
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Old Friday 8th May 2015, 10:53   #46
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I think there is a lapsus. It should spelled Sarothruridae as it is derived from Sarothrura.
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Old Friday 8th May 2015, 11:19   #47
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I think there is a lapsus. It should spelled Sarothruridae as it is derived from Sarothrura.
Yes, well spotted, Melanie. It's spelled correctly as Sarothruridae in the actual list.
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Old Friday 8th May 2015, 11:22   #48
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By the way:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Philippe View Post
García-R J.C., Gibb G. & Trewick S., 2014. Deep global evolutionary radiation in birds: Diversification and trait evolution in the cosmopolitan bird family Rallidae. Mol. Phylogen. Evol. In press
García-R J.C., Gibb G. & Trewick S., 2014. Deep global evolutionary radiation in birds: Diversification and trait evolution in the cosmopolitan bird family Rallidae. Mol. Phylogenet. Evol. 81:96-108. [pdf]
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Old Friday 8th May 2015, 13:52   #49
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Yes, well spotted, Melanie. It's spelled correctly as Sarothruridae in the actual list.
typo fixed
thanks
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Old Saturday 5th September 2015, 07:54   #50
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Lewinia

García-R, Elliott, Walker, Castro & Trewick (in press). Trans-equatorial range of a land bird lineage (Aves: Rallidae) from tropical forests to subantarctic grasslands. J Avian Biol. [abstract]

Taylor 1996 (HBW Alive):

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