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AOU-NACC Proposals 2019

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Old Monday 19th November 2018, 06:39   #26
Murray Lord
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All races and ethnicities should be able to conduct future research on any bird without feeling excluded, uncomfortable, or shame when they hear or say the name of the bird. This longspur is named after a man who fought for years to maintain the right to keep slaves, and also fought against multiple Native tribes.
Let’s rename all birds named after military officers, priests or colonial officials while we are at it. They were only there to oppress the natives weren’t they? And what about collectors who shot birds? Must be unethical. Or employed native collectors without paying them a full wage. Every time I see Victoria’s Riflebird I think of that foreign family who still oppress Australia. And I am uncomfortable with Salim Ali’s Swift – didn’t you know he was a communist!!
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Old Monday 19th November 2018, 07:13   #27
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And I am uncomfortable with Salim Ali’s Swift – didn’t you know he was a communist!!
It's not the only bird named after Salim Ali. (e.g. there is Zoothera salimalii)
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Old Monday 19th November 2018, 11:55   #28
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Taxonomy and nomenclature are not science, so one can go all the way.

For example, all birds and wildlife with the name "American" might be renamed "Mikinoc Waajew" to reflect the name of the continent used by native people who knew these brds and wildlife for millenia before Europeans.

American Oystercatcher => Mikinoc Waajew Oystercatcher
American Redstart => Mikinoc Waajew Redstart.
and so on.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-Nativ...n-subcontinent

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Old Monday 19th November 2018, 12:39   #29
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If I'm ever lucky enough to see MacCown's Longspur I'll appreciate the bird having a memorable name at least, and won't give the historical figure or his reputation more than a second's thought.
Guys, please don't replace it with something blah and forgettable!

Not touching the hyphen debate other than to say - Douglas Fir. Why? It is not a bloody fir
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Old Monday 19th November 2018, 18:28   #30
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I like 2019 -A- 15. I have seen these francolins in Hawaii. The proposal mentions Ortygornis for erckolii? Wolters puts only pomdicerianus there.
“Pternistis erckelii is similar to the rest of the spurfowls, but has a distinct jaw line which is only partly visible on the jaws of a few other spurfowls.”
“There are more stripes on the side of the face of Pternistis erckelii than in other spurfowls, such as having a distinct jaw stripe and a thin stripe above the orbit which is more bold and typical of Scleroptila spp. and female P. coqui. The jaw stripe is only faintly visible on some other spurfowls. Ostensibly, while this seems to be a logical course of evolutionary events, for instance that P. erckelii could link the spurfowls and Scleroptila spp.”
“The prominent jaw stripe of P. erckelii (and to a lesser extent by other spurfowls) is also evident in Coturnix coturnix, N. meleagris and V. acryllium chicks.”
“P. icterorynchus, P. nobilis and P. erckelii, (chicks) generally have a reddish appearance, but their patterns (structurally) remain like the rest.”
The phylogeny of francolins (Francolinus, Dendroperdix, Peliperdix and Scleroptila) and spurfowls (Pternistis) based on chick plumage (2018) Perhaps P. erckolii needs its own genus?
Wolters in Die Vogelarten der Erde puts P. erckelii in an unnamed subgenus along with P. ochropectus castaneicollis, jacksoni, nobilis, camerunensis, and swerstrai. Wolters also put a few species of P. into Chaetopus Swaison 1837.
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 14:07   #31
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[quote=Acanthis;3788235]If I'm ever lucky enough to see MacCown's Longspur I'll appreciate the bird having a memorable name at least

But not so memorable that we can always spell it right, it seems.
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 15:02   #32
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I am surprised at your outrage given that plants, which you frequently include in your IDs, long ago did away with those apostrophes (e.g., Douglas Fir)
However, even in the US, most other animal groups do use the apostrophe - butterflies, mammals, frogs, etc
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 15:17   #33
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However, even in the US, most other animal groups do use the apostrophe - butterflies, mammals, frogs, etc
Americans have been busy for a long time, reinventing the wheel that is 'English', too late now I think.
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 15:33   #34
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The real problem with that possessive -s shows up when you start writing English prose.http://birdaz.com/blog/2018/11/18/an...ve-bird-names/

Though I must say that the Andy Adcock's latest response made me laugh out loud.
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 15:47   #35
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However, even in the US, most other animal groups do use the apostrophe - butterflies, mammals, frogs, etc
Dall sheep
Douglas squirrel
Abert squirrel

Anybody know what the HMW does with such names?
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 15:52   #36
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Dall sheep
Douglas squirrel
Abert squirrel

Anybody know what the HMW does with such names?
Well the'yd capitalise Sheep and Squirrel for a start.
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 16:29   #37
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Dall sheep
Douglas squirrel
Abert squirrel

Anybody know what the HMW does with such names?
I don't own any volumes myself, but googling for some of the sample pages that are available shows that it uses the possessive apostrophe.
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 16:29   #38
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Dall sheep
Douglas squirrel
Abert squirrel

Anybody know what the HMW does with such names?
Your last squirrel at least usually has an apostrophe, as does a certain prairie dog etc. And as for butterflies, here in Europe at least, they all do, but then so do the birds 😊
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 18:43   #39
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McCown's Longspur. Slavery is a sin. The U.S. Army killed lots of native peoples. Judging someone born in 1815 in 2018 viewed through a modern sensibility is awkward. I do judge I want statutes of Confederate Generals torndown. Because stupid people use them to engender hate. If someone got whipped into Pol Pot's army or Hitler's army they cannot have a bird named after them? People are complex. I made a lot of dumb choices as a youth. I have changed. Not to defend Mccown's role as a Confederate General but he grew disenchanted after a long while of the Confederacy "McCown declared the Confederacy was nothing more than "a damned stinking cotton oligarchy... gotten up for the benefit of Isham G. Harris and Jefferson Davis and their damned corrupt cliques.".
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 21:20   #40
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[quote=Rick Wright;3788599]
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If I'm ever lucky enough to see MacCown's Longspur I'll appreciate the bird having a memorable name at least

But not so memorable that we can always spell it right, it seems.
Lol
In my defence I am a Scot and thoroughly aware that the original Mc = Mac (Gaelic for 'son of') and must've unconsciously added the 'a'.

Out of interest which (if any) of the suggested alternative names given would be most acceptable to all you North American forum members?
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 22:54   #41
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[quote=Acanthis;3788754]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Wright View Post

Lol
In my defence I am a Scot and thoroughly aware that the original Mc = Mac (Gaelic for 'son of') and must've unconsciously added the 'a'.

Out of interest which (if any) of the suggested alternative names given would be most acceptable to all you North American forum members?
Woke Longspur?
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Old Tuesday 20th November 2018, 23:22   #42
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If the English name were to be changed (and it won't be), we couldn't do any better than Coues's "bay-winged longspur."

Then there's otsikékinaxsoatsis, the most nearly 'original' name for the species. We went down that same crooked path with the names of many Hawaiian birds, a serious mistake.
---
Out of interest which (if any) of the suggested alternative names given would be most acceptable to all you North American forum members?[/quote]
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Old Wednesday 21st November 2018, 12:09   #43
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otsikékinaxsoatsis, the most nearly 'original' name for the species. We went down that same crooked path with the names of many Hawaiian birds, a serious mistake.
What's wrong with "King Kong Finch"?

Do native Hawaiians actually use those Hawaiian names? Or are they neologisms?
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Old Wednesday 21st November 2018, 19:08   #44
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What's wrong with "King Kong Finch"?

Do native Hawaiians actually use those Hawaiian names? Or are they neologisms?
Some are long-established names, a few are neologisms (Kiwikiu for Maui Parrotbill, for one).
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Old Wednesday 21st November 2018, 21:14   #45
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I am surprised at your outrage given that plants, which you frequently include in your IDs, long ago did away with those apostrophes (e.g., Douglas Fir). As do most other non-biological entities (e.g, Eiffel Tower)
You mean Douglas-fir Pseudotsuga spp., I presume?

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Old Wednesday 21st November 2018, 21:57   #46
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You mean Douglas-fir Pseudotsuga spp., I presume?
Didn't our eponymous hero get himself killed by falling in to a hole which was dug to catch wild cows, there was already a cow in it which killed him or is that twaddle.................?

Do I recall a suggestion that there was suspected foul play?
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Old Thursday 22nd November 2018, 00:17   #47
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Didn't our eponymous hero get himself killed by falling in to a hole which was dug to catch wild cows, there was already a cow in it which killed him or is that twaddle.................?

Do I recall a suggestion that there was suspected foul play?

Yep, on both counts - he was likely pushed; the person who knew where he had headed was a convict, and Douglas's money was missing. No proof of foul play, but it does appear very likely.
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Old Monday 26th November 2018, 13:56   #48
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McCown's Longspur. Slavery is a sin. The U.S. Army killed lots of native peoples. Judging someone born in 1815 in 2018 viewed through a modern sensibility is awkward. I do judge I want statutes of Confederate Generals torndown. Because stupid people use them to engender hate. If someone got whipped into Pol Pot's army or Hitler's army they cannot have a bird named after them? People are complex. I made a lot of dumb choices as a youth. I have changed. Not to defend Mccown's role as a Confederate General but he grew disenchanted after a long while of the Confederacy "McCown declared the Confederacy was nothing more than "a damned stinking cotton oligarchy... gotten up for the benefit of Isham G. Harris and Jefferson Davis and their damned corrupt cliques.".
Complex indeed - the proposal clearly mentioned nothing of McCown's views in his later years. To take the argument ad absurdium, we may as well do away with all patronyms, as I'm sure everyone has done something bad in their life... and it would fix the apostrophe problem to boot!

While on the topic of the confederacy, it should be noted that cafer is not the only racially tinged subspecies of Northern Flicker. The official name of Alabama's state bird is not that, nor Yellow-shafted Flicker, but its colloquial name "Yellowhammer," in tribute(?) to certain Alabama Confederate companies whose uniforms were yellow and gray, resembling the woodpecker. With 30% or more of Alabama's citizens having ancestors who were slaves, I would expect this would have more potential to offend more people than either topic of the AOS proposals.
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Old Monday 26th November 2018, 14:15   #49
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http://birdaz.com/blog/2015/07/26/ho...ker-be-racist/
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Old Monday 26th November 2018, 15:34   #50
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Thank goodness this isn't a butterfly site.....

https://steemitimages.com/p/Y2iXpNqZ...match&mode=fit

Orsotriaena medus, I have books where this species is still called The N....r, how on earth names like this were ever considered appropriate is puzzling but when you consider in the context that at the time of its naming and even in my life time, it was not uncommon for a pet dog to be called the same.
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