swarovision EL (1 Viewer)

ingle1970 said:

An arm and a leg

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The non-SV 8x32 EL already costs an arm and a leg, you'll have to throw in another arm and leg for the SV 8x32 EL. Of course, then you'll have to buy one of those bino helmets from eBay, because you will have no way to hold it!

B.

Per Cameraland the current 10 x 32 EL costs $1969.00 which is $169.00 more than the original price of the double hinged North American version of Nikon's NEW 10 x 32 EDG at $1799.95.

We can only speculate but when (or if?) it comes out it likely will cost much more than the equivalent EDG.

Bob

brocknroller said:

The non-SV 8x32 EL already costs an arm and a leg, you'll have to throw in another arm and leg for the SV 8x32 EL. Of course, then you'll have to buy one of those bino helmets from eBay, because you will have no way to hold it!

B.

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Who said it would be my arms or legs :-O

Comparison between ELs and SV EL's

I compared the SV EL's with my EL's several times a few weeks ago and found little difference between them. I did not take them to my usual birding haunts. Instead I took them to a nearby grassy area where I felt more comfortable lifting one, then the other, to my eyes and looked at sparrows, one small migrant and a few other birds of this late season. Maybe the SV EL's were a little brighter once or twice and maybe a little quicker to adapt my eyes to. I do wear trifocals and my eyesight has more than a few problems. (I have passed my mid seventies in age.) But eventually I decided to wait for the coming SV 8x32s even if it means two or three years. By then I will need lighter weight binoculars. I really wish the SVs had been more obviously better, and maybe I should have spent more time with them. But at the end I returned them. My ELs are some 6 or seven years old, they were later modified by the manufacturer for the faster focus, and do not have the slight yellow tint that I believe some people saw in the first issue of them. By the way, even though the SVs focus much closer than mine, I did not find the focus once past that first close look any slower than mine, maybe a little faster. That part I find easy to adjust to. Further I never noticed any rolling ball effect. But, as I said, I finally made the decision to keep my old ELs.

AlanM said:

I compared the SV EL's with my EL's several times a few weeks ago and found little difference between them. I did not take them to my usual birding haunts. Instead I took them to a nearby grassy area where I felt more comfortable lifting one, then the other, to my eyes and looked at sparrows, one small migrant and a few other birds of this late season. Maybe the SV EL's were a little brighter once or twice and maybe a little quicker to adapt my eyes to. I do wear trifocals and my eyesight has more than a few problems. (I have passed my mid seventies in age.) But eventually I decided to wait for the coming SV 8x32s even if it means two or three years. By then I will need lighter weight binoculars. I really wish the SVs had been more obviously better, and maybe I should have spent more time with them. But at the end I returned them. My ELs are some 6 or seven years old, they were later modified by the manufacturer for the faster focus, and do not have the slight yellow tint that I believe some people saw in the first issue of them. By the way, even though the SVs focus much closer than mine, I did not find the focus once past that first close look any slower than mine, maybe a little faster. That part I find easy to adjust to. Further I never noticed any rolling ball effect. But, as I said, I finally made the decision to keep my old ELs.

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Alan:

I found much the same as you did. The later EL's are very nice, and so you
can be one that can be very happy in using what you have.

Jerry

The new Swarovision has near-perfect edges, virtually eliminates chromatic aberration (best I've seen), is brighter and has an unbelieveable close focus.
The traditional close focus problem with overlapping, out-of-focus images is eliminated by the SV's super sharp edges. Much like the SE, the images are so good in each ocular they effortlessly merge, even at very close focus.

Earlier EL's are very good, but this one is better.

I've recently got the itch for the SV's. I've looked at them twice now, but only inside stores. I'll probably sell off a couple bins to fund it so I've got some time to mull things over.

Here's my question: Can anyone comment on real world comparisons between the 8.5 SV and the 8x32 SE? I didn't have the SE's with me for in-store comparison--should have--but from what I can tell the optical differences are pretty slight.

Eye placement definitely seemed easier with the SV's but I get on pretty well with the SE's anyway. The SE's blackout if I try to look at the edges (lots of bins do this). I wear glasses and I think that makes this problem worse. Is the SV better in that regard?

I assume the SV's might be a tad brighter, but the SE's hold their own in that department as well. Resolution is probably a real close call. CA is not much of an issue for the SE either, so improvements there would be slight. Waterproofing is an obvious difference, but not a clincher considering the additional cost.

I'd consider selling the SE's to fund the SV's, but only if real-world improvements are there. Looks like another trip to the store, this time armed with the SE's. But in the meantime, has anyone had them side-by-side and outside in the field? Failing that, has anyone used both enough to comment on the difference?

Mark

Kammerdiner said:

I've recently got the itch for the SV's. I've looked at them twice now, but only inside stores. I'll probably sell off a couple bins to fund it so I've got some time to mull things over.

Here's my question: Can anyone comment on real world comparisons between the 8.5 SV and the 8x32 SE? I didn't have the SE's with me for in-store comparison--should have--but from what I can tell the optical differences are pretty slight.

Eye placement definitely seemed easier with the SV's but I get on pretty well with the SE's anyway. The SE's blackout if I try to look at the edges (lots of bins do this). I wear glasses and I think that makes this problem worse. Is the SV better in that regard?

I assume the SV's might be a tad brighter, but the SE's hold their own in that department as well. Resolution is probably a real close call. CA is not much of an issue for the SE either, so improvements there would be slight. Waterproofing is an obvious difference, but not a clincher considering the additional cost.

I'd consider selling the SE's to fund the SV's, but only if real-world improvements are there. Looks like another trip to the store, this time armed with the SE's. But in the meantime, has anyone had them side-by-side and outside in the field? Failing that, has anyone used both enough to comment on the difference?

Mark

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I've logged many hours on my SE 8X32 since 2004. The Swarovision 8.5X42 is THE singular binocular that I believe matches my SE for pure optical enjoyment. I'm keeping my SE but, if I could afford only one, it would be the new SV.

SV advantages
Less CA and, to me, the difference is noticeable.
Easier eye placement...actually much easier.
Waterproof and fogproof so it can be used anywhere.
The SV is brighter when brightness counts...in low light.
Superb close focus

SE advantages
Lighter.
Better 3D though it's not that significant.
The SE often appears so deadly sharp I sometimes think it's a hair better.
Less "rolling ball" effect. (Note: I no longer see it in the SV)

Similarities
Superb contrast, color saturation and centerfield sharpness.
Excellent edge control.
Relaxed, and I mean relaxed, view. No straining with these two bins.

WOW factor
Identical.
After nearly seven years my SE still evokes plenty of emotion.
The SV, so far, has a very high WOW factor...on par with the SE.

Hope this helps!

I'm really enjoying my SV's. Rolling ball? What rolling ball? Miles brighter than my old Leica BA's (But I still have a fond place in my heart for my trusty Leicas)

Richard

I´d second what Pileatus and Richard have said. As regards rolling ball, IMHO it´s a non-issue. Due to an unbeatable price on e-bay, a half-bottle of Rioja and "buy-with-one-click", I recently acquired a pair of SE 8x32. The serial number is 550xxx, and I think they´re sharper, with less CA, than a pair I had some years ago. I´ve spent some time comparing my SV 8.5x42 to the SE 8x32, and it really is hard, but fun, comparing them. Both are incredibly sharp. To find CA in either requires inhumane treatment of the binoculars (the SV´s wins by a hair under the most extreme conditions). In low light, the SV´s are a tad brighter. The view through the SV´s is very "relaxed", my eyeballs feel as if they´re in a Turkish Bath. The view through the SE´s is also razor-sharp, eye-placement a bit trickier, both are sharp right out there to the edge. Both are wonderful to hold, the SE´s being lighter for long walks. The focussing on the SE´s is smooth as butter, that on the SV´s is a little "grindy" at one point of the revolution but it´s of no consequence in the field. The 3D effect of the SE´s is very appealing and useful in woodland, and I like the slightly more intense reds and browns of the SE´s. Waterproofing/Nitrogen-purging - well, one has to decide how important this is under the projected conditions of use of the binos. Owning either bino will give one the inner-calm that comes from the knowledge that one is in possession of one of the finest binos in the galaxy. Owning both is a bit insane, but it´s Sophie´s Choice. If there were to be a clincher, and I had to sacrifice one, I might decide to keep the SV´s on the very important basis that because of the extra half-degree of mag, I can see more detail of any bird, in any situation, than with the SE´s.

Thanks, Pileatus,

You know your bins! I had the SE's out today, comparing them to the 8x32 FL's and, yes, the FL's do considerably better with CA. It's cloudy today and the difference is slight, but consistent and noticable. The SE's center field resolution beats the FL's, but I knew that already. The SE's are Godlike calm when everything is set.

The "WOW factor" is probably the clincher, and for that I'll simply have to put them side by side. It may come down to "ease of view," which is a bit subjective.

I'll go out on a birding limb here and suggest that the next generation of 8x32 roofs (SV, FL2, whatever) will pretty much be the apotheosis of birding bins--unless, of course, Nikon decides to upgrade the SE's with 21st century eyecups and ED glass. In that case, the porros win.

Here's one thing Nikon HAS TO fix: the dangle angle of the 8x32 SE's is atrocious. Horrible compared to the FL's.

Mark

Sancho said:

The focussing on the SE´s is smooth as butter, that on the SV´s is a little "grindy" at one point of the revolution but it´s of no consequence in the field. The 3D effect of the SE´s is very appealing and useful in woodland, and I like the slightly more intense reds and browns of the SE´s. Waterproofing/Nitrogen-purging - well, one has to decide how important this is under the projected conditions of use of the binos. Owning either bino will give one the inner-calm that comes from the knowledge that one is in possession of one of the finest binos in the galaxy. Owning both is a bit insane, but it´s Sophie´s Choice. If there were to be a clincher, and I had to sacrifice one, I might decide to keep the SV´s on the very important basis that because of the extra half-degree of mag, I can see more detail of any bird, in any situation, than with the SE´s.

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Nicely said! You can always count on Sancho to get things right.

I think the SV's focussing is a bit "notchy" because they are trying to eliminate tolerances, so that the bin focuses identically L to R and R to L. I have a number of roof bins that focus better one way than the other (the diopter can change the best direction). Two focus trains are involved with roofs and getting them synchronized is tricky. Tightening things up helps, but makes it "notchy." Generally one focus train is used for porros so both eyepieces are synchronized. The SE focuses effortlessly either way. Question is: how can Nikon and Pentax get it smooth and precise either way in their roofs, while Zeiss, Leica, Swaro opt for notchy.

Mark

Kammerdiner said:

Nicely said! You can always count on Sancho to get things right.

Mark

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Thanks Mark! I just showed this quote to my wife. She doesn´t agree.

The SV sounds like a wonderful piece of kit, same with the SE's. I'm going to have to try to get some facetime with them at some point, although I fear it will send me on another [unnecessary and expensive] buying spree!

notchy no more

Kammerdiner said:

I think the SV's focussing is a bit "notchy" because they are trying to eliminate tolerances, so that the bin focuses identically L to R and R to L. I have a number of roof bins that focus better one way than the other (the diopter can change the best direction). Two focus trains are involved with roofs and getting them synchronized is tricky. Tightening things up helps, but makes it "notchy." Generally one focus train is used for porros so both eyepieces are synchronized. The SE focuses effortlessly either way. Question is: how can Nikon and Pentax get it smooth and precise either way in their roofs, while Zeiss, Leica, Swaro opt for notchy.
Mark

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So far, I have been seeing this complaint about the "notchy" focus from folks who have tried the SVs out but have not used them over time. Having used my SVs for a coupla three months, my experience is that the focusing has smoothed out completely. I would report that the focusing is now as precise and transparent as are the optics.

My first pair of decent bins were the Premier LXL's which are, indeed, smooth but a bit spongy compared to the SVs. The SV focus quickly snaps in to amazingly sharp... and then you give them just the least little notch-free tweak and... I am sorry, but superlatives get numbing and just don't suffice. You just have to see for yourself what these babies do out in the field.

Best,
Brad

Bradley B said:

So far, I have been seeing this complaint about the "notchy" focus from folks who have tried the SVs out but have not used them over time. Having used my SVs for a coupla three months, my experience is that the focusing has smoothed out completely. I would report that the focusing is now as precise and transparent as are the optics.

My first pair of decent bins were the Premier LXL's which are, indeed, smooth but a bit spongy compared to the SVs. The SV focus quickly snaps in to amazingly sharp... and then you give them just the least little notch-free tweak and... I am sorry, but superlatives get numbing and just don't suffice. You just have to see for yourself what these babies do out in the field.

Best,
Brad

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Couldn't agree more :t:

I used the 8x32 SEs for years and years, up until about a month after my SVs arrived. To my considerable surprise, suddenly the SEs were 2nd best, and too nice for car bins. The SVs resolve better, have less CA and are a little less tiring to look through. That said, on a per dollar basis I still think the SEs are the best view in the universe.

Pileatus said:

I've logged many hours on my SE 8X32 since 2004. The Swarovision 8.5X42 is THE singular binocular that I believe matches my SE for pure optical enjoyment. I'm keeping my SE but, if I could afford only one, it would be the new SV.

SV advantages
Less CA and, to me, the difference is noticeable.
Easier eye placement...actually much easier.
Waterproof and fogproof so it can be used anywhere.
The SV is brighter when brightness counts...in low light.
Superb close focus

SE advantages
Lighter.
Better 3D though it's not that significant.
The SE often appears so deadly sharp I sometimes think it's a hair better.
Less "rolling ball" effect. (Note: I no longer see it in the SV)

Similarities
Superb contrast, color saturation and centerfield sharpness.
Excellent edge control.
Relaxed, and I mean relaxed, view. No straining with these two bins.

WOW factor
Identical.
After nearly seven years my SE still evokes plenty of emotion.
The SV, so far, has a very high WOW factor...on par with the SE.

Hope this helps!

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Update...

Last night I spent time looking at real stars with the SV, a phenomenal viewing experience that will make binocular astronomers very content.

The focus mechanism smoothes out with use. I assume Swarovski decided to keep factory tolerances tight and let the user "break in" the focus. In any case, it's very precise and user-friendly.

The diopter setting is very fine, something that should appeal to anyone with increasingly poor accommodation.

IPD adjustment does not stray.

The rolling ball effect is a non-issue. It's there when I look for it but it's never once intruded on the "view", panning or no panning.

CA control is near perfect, on par with the best of the best.

WOW factor...as good as the SE's.

I’ve had my 10x42 SV’s for about 6 months now and have been able to test them under a variety of field conditions. The comments and advice on this forum helped persuade me buy my pair, so I thought I’d provide a bit of feedback that may be of use to others.

The view through these bins is nothing short of amazing – the best I’ve ever seen. They are exceptionally clear and the colour rendition is superb. Looking at bank of red flowers in bright sunshine the colours will jump out at you in a manner that’s almost mesmerising. Whether it’s the coating or the glass I don’t know, but the effect is pretty impressive. They are excellent in low light and though I haven’t tried them in really testing conditions yet, they haven’t shown the tendency to fog up like some of my previous bins. Nor have I had any hint of the rolling ball effect mentioned by others. At first I wasn’t so impressed by the edge to edge view, but I’ve come to really appreciate it and I think it contributes to the very relaxed viewing that these bins afford.

The weight and grip are both just right (for me), and they just have that feel of a quality piece of equipment.

So a perfect choice then? Well not so fast. There are two design issues that bug me. The first is the eye-cups. I have the original cups and these are very spongy and never seem to click properly into place. This means that when I put on or take off the plastic eye cover, one eye cup invariably drops down or raises up a notch which distorts the view, requiring some fiddling to sort it out. I intend to get a pair of the new cups shortly (thanks for the tip on this forum) and hopefully they will hold their position better.

The other issue is the focus. Someone asked about the focus a little earlier in this thread and whether it was a problem. Pretty much all the reports I’ve read have said that the SV’s require 2.5 turns end to end, which is basically on a par with my old Swarovski SLC’s. However my SV’s take 6 (yes six) turns end to end. Ok, so the first 4.5 turns take you from your toenails to 5 meters or so, and the next one turn puts you in the real sweet-spot of 5m – infinity but that’s still a lot of turning, particularly as the wheel is very sensitive and easily moves out of the 5m+ position. I’m curious whether this is a problem singular to my pair or whether this is the norm for this model (though if so I’m surprised no-one else has commented on it).

I like to wear my bins over my shoulder when I’m hiking so they don’t bang against my chest and a common scenario for me is as follows: see a bird on a fence, lift up bins, can’t see anything. Turn focus dial to left, again, again – oops reached the wrong end, turn other way, again, again, again, again, overshoot, back a bit, oh its gone! Ok it would help if I learned which way to turn the dial, but in the heat of the moment its not so easy. The focus on my old Swaro’s was great – it was heavy enough to stay in place regardless of how I carried the bins and I was only ever a couple of turns away from a clear view – so to me the focus mechanism on these is a step backwards. I have no problem with having a very sensitive focus range for objects that are close, but I wish there was a way I could keep my pair within the 5m + range. Something like an intermediate stop that required greater pressure on the wheel to get into the next focussing range.

If you generally wear your bins around your neck then this might not be an issue for you, but otherwise I suggest you test them out in the shop carefully first to make sure it doesn’t lead to future frustration.

Once the SV’s are in focus the image is simply magnificent and the feel of these bins simply oozes quality. Its fun to pass them around a group of people and see the reaction; usually stunned silence in my experience. Now if they could just address the focus issue these bins would be very hard to beat.

Abbott,
Thanks for your not-too-quick report on the Swarovision. I only tried one in a store, and it seemed much like the Zeiss FL but with amazing field correction. This undoubtedly makes for a relaxed viewing experience, because you don't have to discipline where you look.

I carry my binoculars on straps diagonally across the opposite shoulder, which makes the weight seem to disappear and keeps them from dingle-dangling in rough places where you are bending and stooping. But with my Zeiss FL, unless I keep the bino around towards my stomach a bit, I experience the same focus shift problem as you, since my arm brushes against the raised and hypersensitive focus knob.

You can't have a binocular that is both easy to focus and hard to throw out of focus. In retrospect, my old Leica Trinovid was not such a bad compromise in this respect, with it's knob that barely protruded out of the armor, made of rather slick plastic, and relatively difficult to turn. I thought this was a bad thing when I owned it, but it had its advantage. The FL errs the other way.

The ultimate stay put focus is the individual eyepiece-focusing Porro. Your arm can't brush the eyepieces because the fat prism housings protect them. I often use a Fujinon 8x30 of this type. I have installed spacers to limit the inward motion of the eyepieces at my infinity setting for each eye. Most birds are at "infinity" or just a small tweak this side of it, and it is very handy to be able to slam the focus to infinity by feel alone, which is often the desired setting, or is at least a good known starting point.

Modern roof prism binos like the SV and FL focus "like a dream", and a good thing, because they demand continual tweaking. With the Porro, most of the time I just put it up and that's that. A small adjustment "unngh!", may be required. Of course if the bird is really close and quick moving, forget it. So, it is not a good birding binocular in this way, but still has an advantage at greater distances.

I can't think of a homemade way to limit the motion of the center focus knob to my personal infinity setting. I wish the manufacturers would build this in.
Ron