The Kowa Eyepiece Compatabiliy Thread (1 Viewer)

I might have been unclear there : I was commenting on the compatibility list only because although the TS-601/602 scopes also share the same bayonet as the TS610 , TSN-1/2/3/4, TSN600 and 82SV series the EPs interchangeability is not complete and trying to use a TS-600 series EP (which is also marked "Ø60") on the other "Ø60" series listed (and the old "Ø77" series) may lead to either a waste of money or worse a scope damage.

I do not own the TE-9Z, I own what appears to be a version of the old 20x-60x specially designed for the TS-601/602 and marked "Ø60" (with a longer barrel than the typical old 20x-60x for TSN-1/2/3/4 wich is marked "Ø77").
I do not own the original TSN-1-4 20x-60x "Ø77" EP model but from all the pictures I have seen so far the 2 are identical save for one detail : the barrel of the "Ø60" model is a few mm longer after the flange, making it unsuitable for TSN scopes with a protective glass.

This extra length is "dead length" as it serves absolutely no purpose (except maybe for baffling), just a longer tube than what is strictly needed to house and guide the optical groups. I suspect all this may have been either :

1) a move by Kowa to reuse old stock of the 20x-60x designed before the TSN-1-4 models incorporated a protective glass by simply rebadging them "Ø60" to restrict their use to the non-sealed, buget scopes of the TS600 series. The shorter, "Ø77" marked 20x-60x with the lenses flush with the mount would then be a newer, modified mount design adopted to accomodate the sealed versions of the TSN-1-4 series

2) or a deliberate move to have owners of TS-600 series scopes purchase a new 20x-60x ocular if they upgraded to TSN-1-4 scopes, but this would mean that the (non-sealed) TS-600 series and their "dedicated" 20x-60x were launched exactly at the time when TSN-1-4 scopes became sealed.

Anyway, at the end of the day it boils down to this : the old 20x-60x EP with "Ø60" engraving and the lenses recessed into the mount (scope-side) at all magnifications is fully incompatible with late TSN-1/2/3/4 scopes with a protective glass and all later sealed models with the same flange to glass distance, whatever the Kowa site may say. Attempting to mount one could only result in breaking the protective glass and ruining the sealing of the scope...|8.|

As for the performance of the 60x eyepiece, it is quite usable and on the TS-601 it is much better than the 20x-60x at 60. Still, I would not describe it as stellar... From what I read about the TE-9Z and what you and others wrote about the performance of the 20x-60x Opticron EP at 60, I think trying to get hold of an old 60x may be a waste of time and money for Opticron and TE-9Z owners.
On the other hand, getting a secondhand sample around 60€ could be a wise move for owners of vintage scopes who need 60x but are on a limited budget and can't afford the Opticron or TE-9Z (I currently fit in this category, having just upgraded my microscopy equipment which as you probably know costs an arm, a leg + an eye !:C).

mayoayo said:

There are different versions of the TSN3...some older scopes are not sealed,and will not have a glass window in the mount,but newer versions,do have a glass window.The lettering in newer models include the word "prominar",written in red..maybe this fact explains the difference you guys found in the use of the zoom...

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Hi,
Have been tying to date my recent purchase of a mint TSN 4 I know they were made from 86 to 96. So the earlier ones had all white lettering and the later ones some red lettering i.e. the name Kowa in red along with fluorite lens in red. Also at one point the name Kowa (in red) sat above the rest of the lettering while others had the name Kowa (also in red) along side the rest of the lettering. Any idea which came first the former or the latter!!
suppressor

Hi Yann,

thanks for the explanation - now things get clearer... and the Kowa site is most probably correct as they just state that the current EP lineup for the 60x, 66x and 82SV scopes is compatible to the TSN-1234 and TS-61x series.

Not sure what your mystery EP is - as for the tube being longer than necessary - on my legacy 20-60x zoom the front element slides back and forth inside the tube when zooming... if the tube on yours is still longer than necessary at all magnifications, carefully grinding down a few millimeters might be an option.

While we talk of my legacy EP - it's gathering dust since I have the Opticron (which gives 18-53x magnification on the TSN-3). If you can use it and want it, send me a PM with your snail mail address and I'll send it to you when I'm back from vacation. It's not great - especially past 45x - but sure better than no zoom.

Joachim

Hi suppressor,

I think there's only two different versions of TSN-3/4 - an older and a newer one. The other differences are due to the fact that the two sides of the scope are labelled quite differently...

The older version (my example has serial nr. 120781) looks like this:
right side (from EP):
KOWA (logo centered in italics & red)
PROMINAR (in white large letters)
FLUORITE LENS TSN-3 (in small letters matching the width of last row)
left side (from EP):
PROMINAR tsn-3 (white large letters)
FLUORITE LENS (white small letters right aligned)

The new version looks like this:
right side (from EP):
KOWA (logo left aligned in italics & red)
PROMINAR (in white large letters)
MULTICOATED (white small letters) FLUORITE LENS (red small letters)
TSN-3 (small letters right aligned)
left side (from EP):
looks just like the right side except for the KOWA logo being to the left of the PROMINAR lettering instead of above

Joachim

jring said:

Hi suppressor,

I think there's only two different versions of TSN-3/4 - an older and a newer one. The other differences are due to the fact that the two sides of the scope are labelled quite differently...

The older version (my example has serial nr. 120781) looks like this:
right side (from EP):
KOWA (logo centered in italics & red)
PROMINAR (in white large letters)
FLUORITE LENS TSN-3 (in small letters matching the width of last row)
left side (from EP):
PROMINAR tsn-3 (white large letters)
FLUORITE LENS (white small letters right aligned)

The new version looks like this:
right side (from EP):
KOWA (logo left aligned in italics & red)
PROMINAR (in white large letters)
MULTICOATED (white small letters) FLUORITE LENS (red small letters)
TSN-3 (small letters right aligned)
left side (from EP):
looks just like the right side except for the KOWA logo being to the left of the PROMINAR lettering instead of above

Joachim

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Many thanks Joachim its what I was looking for. My unit must be quite a late one ,serial number 164798.
suppressor

Celestron Ultima 80 zoom for TSN 1 -4

I have been playing with making some adapters for budget scopes to allow them to use better eyepieces. In doing this I went the other way and discovered that the Celestron zoom 8-24 for the 80mm ultima does fit and preform like a champ on my TSN-1. My scope version does not have the sealed glass window. A very thin o-ring must be placed under the Celestron's eyepiece collar as described by others for the Optiicron zoom eyepiece. This prevents the barrel of the eyepiece from rotating. The o-ring must be needle thin in order to allow for focus at the 24mm setting near and far.The field of view is typical for a zoom. The clarity is what is surprising. The 8mm focal length gives 52.5x. I see no defects or loss of clarity. Really, considering from where the eyepiece came I was stunned. After what equates to 45x there is a slight dimming. At 52 it is slight but obvious. 40x seems to allow me to resolve the best detail. After this mark I see no increase in resolution but the view is bigger but still very clear. I think that pretty much describes any 80mm class quality non-ED/APO scope.

In the past I tried the Kowa TE-9z zoom. I was not impressed and sent it back. I accept the use of this one maybe because I have accepted that almost all zoom lenses used at high power is not very pleasant with glasses on. So off they came.

I was going to try the Opticron v2 but I cannot see why I should now.

The only way I have been able to find this eyepiece is to actually buy the 80mm Ultima scope. I think I bought mine for $174.00. I'll be selling the Ultima scope with a modified Celestron LER adapted. The scope may be huge but it is incredible for the $. The 65mm Ultima comes with a different smaller zoom eyepiece and you do not want that one. This zoom works, good luck with it. JP

Hi,
Great summary for compatibility possibilities!.
I just have one question (2 in fact) , Eyepieces for 820M series are the same as 820 ones?
Also, I saw in the past a 20-60 Kowa EP mounted on a 823 but this eyepiece was with grey colour (as aluminium colour). I never saw that type of EP. Where does it come from? Is it comon?
Thanks in advance and best regads
Yves

Hi,

the 823M seems to be a later version with improved grey vs. green body (the 820 series had a not too strong plastic body). See the following thread. So the 820M series should be fully compatible to the 820 series but to no other Kowa scopes, although adapters exist to use small form factor EPs (from TSN-1,2,3,4 TSN-600/610 and TSN-660 series) on the 820 series.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=12045

PS: Thanks a lot to jrp jr for posting his experiences with the celestron EPs!

Joachim

Yves, I think the grey 20-60 zoom you mention was brought out with the 823m - its colour matches the greyer body of the m model. It will work on a standard 823. Not sure if there are any optical differences with it to the earlier zoom, such as different coatings etc.

Sooo... I'm confused, nothing new for me. I would like to try the Celestron Ultima 80 eyepiece on a 663m, I shouldn't have any issue with any of the glass that keeps some eyepieces from working in the old, sealed, TSN1,2,3,4 scopes, correct? Has anyone else tried this eyepiece? Sounds like quite a saving over a new Kowa zoom.
Thanks,
Nick

Hi,

actually the 601 is newer than the 1,2,3,4 series... you have to look for the protecting glass yourself. On my old style TSN-3 body you can see and touch the prism where the EP goes, the later 1,2,3,4 series models have a glass plate in front of the prism which hermetically seals the body.

You can measure the distance of the bayonet flange to the prism/glass plate with a slide gauge or so and post here, up in the thread I have given the measurements for the EPs I own and others might be able to help too.

Joachim

Hi,

just for the record in this thread since I searched for half an hour for this info again...

The size of the accessory thread a around the bayonet on TSN-1/2/3/4 (and probably other small bayonet Kowas) is M41x0.75. For the current large bayonet Kowas I found M55x0.75.

Joachim

Bigger fix magnification for old Kowa TSN-3?

Hello,

First, thank you so much for everybody to share informations about eyepiece compatibility for older Kowa scopes. I recently have bought an old Kowa TSN-3 scope, without prism sealing glass (factory number 124 695, so early version), and I am very happy with it. The scope came with old 20x and 60x fix magnification eyepieces, and thanks to your support, I managed to buy a new TSE-14WD 30x fix ocular, that is amazing with this old scope.

My question is, that do you know any reliable fix magnification ocular from third party above 50x or 60x that I should use with this scope? I feel that the old 60x fix ocular has quite poor light transmission. I would like to use the scope for colour ring reading, so I need big magnification too. As I have heard and read no particularly happy opinion about the Kowa zoom, I am interested to have newer fix high magnification.

Thanks in advance,

Krisz

Hi,

the old 60x is indeed singlecoated and thus might loose a few percent of transmission and thus perceived image brightness. But the smaller exit pupil of 1.2mm will have a larger effect on perceived image brightness - and will be there even with the best coatings available.

If 18-52x is ok for you, the Opticron SDLv2 zoom will work very well with minimal adaption (just add a rubber o-ring) with your TSN-3. Mine still gives good views and even thorough comparison to the current top dog Kowa 883 has not made me run to the store. Yes, the 883 and the new zoom is better, but not 2k€ better...

Regarding high mag fixed EPs I have tried a 6.3mm TAL Ploessl w/o the 1.25" barrel which gives 67x and looks ok but needs adaption and has quite short eye relief.
I have also tried an Opticron fixed mag EP 40861 with 5mm focal length and 84x - this also needs adaption (40925 adapter plus duct tape) and works ok. But obviously the 0.9mm exit pupil means you need good light.

Joachim

Dear Colleagues ,
I summarized the information from Joachim and form others or collected in many other sites, in a table.
Of course, if you want to update the table, ,please tell me the changes as I am happy to update it.
(I can send ou the excel table if you PM me your email address).
I tried to attached excel table not ot sure it will work!
Best regards
Yves

Hi,

to get this up again (maybe we could even get this made sticky?) - I received a PM from a BF member who has successfully tried the SDLv3 on his TSN-4 with great success.

Joachim

While not "Kowas" there are 2 B&L scopes that accept Kowa 60mm class eyepieces. The Premier 77 Florite (With slightly larger 0 ring) and the B&L HDR.

I am never been a regular user of zoom but I did not hesitate when a late multicoated Kowa tsn3 came up for sale at a bargain price even though when I collected it and found it was fitted with an Opticron 40862 zoom but as I rarely zoom and now I have more time may digiscope its not perfect.
I decided to try Opticrons 40831 after all it connects in the same way as the zooms Opticron say the field of view is about double... its multicoated its arrived and it seems excellent so far I think the low light capabilities will outstrip anything Kowa wise that will fit this scope the scope itself is truly amazing but the eyepieces of that era were poor compared to whats available today if you need a long reach forget it but if you are happy with about 30x its certainly worth a try.

Jaff said:

I'm putting this on as a definitive guide to what fits on what with Kowa scopes and eyepieces, if anything has been missed or I've got something wrong feel free to post corrections. Hopefully this can serve as a one stop solution to a recurring question.

Kowa TS 502 - I'm fairly sure this will only take 502 ep's, NO adapter. All two of them BTW! :eek!: :-O

Kowa TS610 series - Any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN 600 series, NO adapter. Opticron HDF 20-60x zoom, screws directly onto screw thread (needs washers for optimum performance).

Kowa TSN 1/2/3/4 - Any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN 600 series, NO adapter. Opticron HDF and SDL 20-60x zoom, screws directly onto screw thread (needs washers for optimum performance).

Kowa TSN 600 series - Any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN 600 series, NO adapter.

Kowa TSN 660 series - Any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN 600 series, NO adapter.

Kowa TSN 820 series - Only accepts 820 series eyepieces without adapter. Adapter required for fitting any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN 600 series, but hard to find.

TSN 82SV - Uses TSN600 eyepieces so in theory should accept any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series with no adapter.

TSN 770 series - Only accepts the new 770/880 series eyepieces without adapter. I think adapter's can be bought to accept any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN600 series. Not sure about TSN820 EP's but probs not.

TSN 880 series - Only accepts the new 770/880 series eyepieces without adapter. I think adapter's can be bought to accept any TS610 series, TSN 1/2/3/4 series and TSN600 series. Not sure about TSN820 EP's but probs not.

Think that's everything I can think of. :t:

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The Opticron 40831 fits the tsn3 in the same manner as the zooms and gives very good views .

z-ben said:

The Opticron 40831 fits the tsn3 in the same manner as the zooms and gives very good views .

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good info

just got a kowa tsn 2 with 25x not the long eye relief version, i presume the opticron 40831 fits the tsn 2 aswell and screws on to the outer thread?

thanks