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Redpoll (Ukraine) ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter osprey0311
- Start date
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Looks good for A. h. exilipes :t:
Steve Lister
Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
In Ukraine? Highly improbable, I'd think!
osprey0311
Well-known member
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
This new one is A. flammea - broad dark streak on under-tail coverts in the last pic.
Maturin
Active member
Agree - this one is a flammea
osprey0311
Well-known member
osprey0311
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osprey0311
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osprey0311
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osprey0311
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osprey0311
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Any idea? Or it is impossible to be sure from these photos?
Thanks!
Thanks!
KenM
Well-known member
I think the lack of response Osprey is because people simply don't know. This as you know is a very difficult taxa to ID when the examples shown are less than "classic" types. There is much speculation and a lot of faith put in the flank/under-tail covert streaking (also the absence of) which can vary in intensity, and seems to overlap to a greater or lesser extent with all of the proposed taxons in this group. I've often wondered whether the said streaking is gender/age related i.e. heavier streaking in immatures and less so in adults?
FWIW I've had flocks of Redpolls overwintering in my garden (have a niger feeding station, 2m from window) in previous winters (normally between 6-30 birds..none last year). Most of which were Lesser Redpoll A.cabaret, several A.flammea not unlike the birds shown in your last post (larger than the A.cabaret and sporting marginally spotted white rumps), also several types that I found difficult to ascribe to A.flammea, and appearing to fall between the latter and Arctic Redpoll. Good images of the "perceived" salient points are a must! when dealing with "overlap types", glad you've got good access to your Redpolls, keep sending the images as they are certainly of interest....especially as I don't have any at present. :t:
wolfbirder
Well-known member
I agree, those in posts 14 and 15 are so border-line. Sometimes I see images of birds identified as 1stW female Arctics that I would have had as flammea, but then I see birds that look like Arctic which are actually Icelandic-race .
Such birds as photographed, with some flank streaking always throw me, really could be either.
Such birds as photographed, with some flank streaking always throw me, really could be either.
SteveClifton
Well-known member
I tend to agree with Ken and Nick, that when faced with individuals that don't jump out immediately as Arctic (yet still might be?) you should err on the side of caution unless a combination of clinching details are seen, such as under tail coverts, rump pattern etc.
With a difficult group like redpolls there will always be some birds that are perhaps best left unidentified, and personally I would only be happy to claim birds that show a full suite of characters (or at least most of them) as genuine Arctics .
With a difficult group like redpolls there will always be some birds that are perhaps best left unidentified, and personally I would only be happy to claim birds that show a full suite of characters (or at least most of them) as genuine Arctics .
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wolfbirder
Well-known member
Some 1w Arctic Redpolls I saw photographed and held in the hand had several UTC streaks and a buffy instead of white rump. They really threw me.
