Digiscoping to DSLR Photography (1 Viewer)

DaveB · Oct 1, 2005

I've been digiscoping for the past 2-3 years and have been very happy holding my Coolpix 4300 up to the eyepiece of my Kowa scope. Some very good shots have been taken during this time, but i now feel the time is right for a change.

I am now thinking of ditching my scope and going for a DSLR camera with a 500mm lens. I would like a silent shutter release, auto focus and as many automatic features as possible. I will be a novice at first but would like the oppertunity to play about with the various settings once I feel confident with the set up.

Cost will hopefully be as cheap as possible, but I wont mind paying the right money for the right gear.

Any help and guidance will be accepted with much gratitude.

Tyler Vargo · Oct 1, 2005

Well, with a DSLR you won't get silent shutter release, it's going to sound just like a 35mm SLR minus the film advance.

DaveB · Oct 1, 2005

I've just read a few reviews and the Nikon D70 looks as though it may be my best choice. I also like the look of the Canon 20D.

Lens wise, £5000 seems to be allot of money. I think my best bet is to try and find a one thats second hand or an ex-demo.

postcardcv · Oct 1, 2005

The EOS 350D is also worth a look, it's also a 8mp camera (like the 20D), gives comparable images and is a few hundred cheaper.

As for a 500mm lens, rather than paying £5000 for a Canon why not look at the Sigma 500mm f4.5 HSM. It's a fast, fairly quiet, lens and is significantly cheaper. The new DG version is about £2600, but you can pick up the previous version for about £1900 new, or even less if you can find one secondhand. I am not convinced that the new DG version is worth the extra money.

I'm using the EOS 350D with the Sigma lens and am getting some reasonable results - have a look in my gallery (not all with this set up) - http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/3294
Also have a look at SeanKP's gallery, he's using the same set up and getting excellent results - http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=23697&cat=500

birdeast · Oct 2, 2005

I bugged a lot of people around here for a couple of months trying to decide if I would get started in bird photography with a digiscoping rig or a DSLR setup. I finally chose DSLR and I am very happy.

Since you mentioned 500mm and Canon 20D, sounds like budget might not be real tight for you. I went strictly entry level and purchased the Nikon D50. I get the impression a lot of people see this camera as extremely basic. I may be minus a few bells and whistles, but it is capable of taking exceptional photographs. If I as a photographer can fully exploit the potential of this camera, I will be very happy. I am 100% novice and have been shocked by some of the images I have been able to capture so far. Most important piece of advice I can give is to read as many reviews as you can get your hands on. Also, go to a camera dealer and ask questions, touch the equipment, etc. Everyone is different. I have a few decent images in my gallery if you want to see what the D50 is like with a Sigma 70-300mm lens.

As of yesterday, any dreams of digiscoping I might have had have been squashed for the foreseeable future. I purchased the Sigma 100-300 f4 lens. I am about 15 minutes from going out and testing it. In the next couple of weeks I will probably had a 1.4x teleconvertor giving me a 630mm f5.6 focal length equivalent (300 x 1.4 x 1.5 (crop factor). I guess everyone will always want more focal length for birding, but I think this as far as I will go. The rest will be left to technique and getting as close as I can.

Goodluck with your decision - Heck! Enjoy your decision process!

Scott

DaveB · Oct 2, 2005

Many thanks for the replies.

I've looked at a review for Nikon D70, which sounds good. I think that the next step would be to look at the reviews for the Nikon D50, the EOS 350D and the Sigma 500mm f4.5 HSM or DG lens.

Taking these into account, it looks and sounds better than spending the £5500 that I originally thought I would have to pay to get the set up that I want.

Thanks agian,

daveB

limicole2 · Oct 2, 2005

dslr and digiscoping

Hi,
I use a canon 300d with the canon 100-400mm is lens. Great for birds in flight and the forest. But, for ducks and shorebirds, I use my slr for digiscoping with a canon 50mm 1.8 lens and my zeiss 85 fl spotting scope.
Since I use the slr for digiscoping, most of the time my coolpix 4500 stay in my backpack.
My next step will be to buy the next generation of 20d or 350d and to sell my coolpix.
It is not digi or slr. It digi and slr !

Claude
Québec, Canada

DaveB · Oct 2, 2005

I have thought about using both digiscoping and dslr, but I don't want loads of gear laid about the house. I get loads of good results from holding my Cooolpix 4300 to the eyepiece of my Kowa, but would like even better images (visit the Birds of Durham page for sample images at http://www.durhambirdclub.org/7.birdsofdurham/01.birdsofdurham_home.html) than what I am getting at present.

I must say that at the time of writing this, my thoughts are increasingly pointing towards the EOS 350D along with the Sigma 500hsm. Before going and trying it out, what is the best way to protect this set up against transport, rain, etc and how much does insurance cost?

If I purchased this set up and sold the scope, do you think I would miss the telescope? I simply dont want to drag all that gear around with me.

Thanks for all the info so far,

Dave B

rezMole · Oct 2, 2005

You won't be able to use the camera as a scope.

Chuck A. Walla · Oct 2, 2005

DaveB said:
I must say that at the time of writing this, my thoughts are increasingly pointing towards the EOS 350D along with the Sigma 500hsm. Before going and trying it out, what is the best way to protect this set up against transport, rain, etc and how much does insurance cost?

If I purchased this set up and sold the scope, do you think I would miss the telescope? I simply dont want to drag all that gear around with me.

Thanks for all the info so far,

Dave B

Excellent choice. I started with a Nikon CP4500 and Meade 1250 scope. I got some decent shots but I was missing a lot also. I now have a DSLR with a 70-300 mm zoom. I do miss the scope but I don't miss the weight. Bird photography is a bit more like birdwatching now and the lost shots are more then made up for by the ones I do get. Even though I can attach the Meade to my camera at prime focus giving me the equivalent of a 2000mm lens on a 35mm camera, I don't usually drag it along.

I am currently lusting after the Sigma 50-500mm. Zooms are great for switching from that warbler in the bush to the raptor sailing overhead.

I would suggest an external flash with a flash extender. It will help with poor lighting situations which seems to be most of the time. Pesky birds like to stay in the shade of trees and bushes a lot. I have found that I can handhold a 600mm lens and get decent shots with a flash.

limicole2 · Oct 3, 2005

Dave,
It's depend if you want birding and photography or...photography and birding!
I thing the 350d is a good choice for the price. I greatly suggest a is (or os) lens for best results. But, I known, it is expensive!

Claude
Québec, Canada

DaveB said:
I have thought about using both digiscoping and dslr, but I don't want loads of gear laid about the house. I get loads of good results from holding my Cooolpix 4300 to the eyepiece of my Kowa, but would like even better images (visit the Birds of Durham page for sample images at http://www.durhambirdclub.org/7.birdsofdurham/01.birdsofdurham_home.html) than what I am getting at present.

I must say that at the time of writing this, my thoughts are increasingly pointing towards the EOS 350D along with the Sigma 500hsm. Before going and trying it out, what is the best way to protect this set up against transport, rain, etc and how much does insurance cost?

If I purchased this set up and sold the scope, do you think I would miss the telescope? I simply dont want to drag all that gear around with me.

Thanks for all the info so far,

Dave B

postcardcv · Oct 3, 2005

DaveB said:
I must say that at the time of writing this, my thoughts are increasingly pointing towards the EOS 350D along with the Sigma 500hsm. Before going and trying it out, what is the best way to protect this set up against transport, rain, etc and how much does insurance cost?

If I purchased this set up and sold the scope, do you think I would miss the telescope? I simply dont want to drag all that gear around with me.

I think that the 350D with sigma 500hsm is a good set up, however it's a big lens so make sure you've got a good tripod to use with it. The best way of transporting it would be to get a Lowepro bag, I use an Omni Trekker and carry, this camera and lens, along with three other lenses and my digiscoping camera. It is a good bag and is comfortable to carry when out for a days birding. I have covered my camera and lens on my house contents insurance (did not cost me to add them as named items).

Assuming you use your scope a lot I am sure you'd miss it.
A camera with lens will not replace a telescope, birding and bird photography can be very different ways to spend time. Personally I take my camera kit out in a bag and have my scope set up, when I want to take photos I switch them over. Yes it is a lot of kit to carry out, but I'd rather have both with me than miss a bird because I don't have my scope.

limicole2 said:
I thing the 350d is a good choice for the price. I greatly suggest a is (or os) lens for best results. But, I known, it is expensive!

IS lenses can be good for hand held shots, but the Sigma lens on a tripod will do just as well. Personally I would not pay the extra for one, as I don't think that they give you enough extra.

DaveB · Oct 3, 2005

Listenning to the advice given, I am in no doubt that that the Canon EOS 350D is the camera for me, but am still unsure as the lens.

My idea was to get rid of the scope, but have decided that this would not be in my best interests (again on the advice given).

So, I am now looking for advice on a lens that would capture moving/flying birds. The Sigma 500 F4.5hsm would be my preferred choice after reading the articles/advice given on these pages, but would a 400 do me. How far is say a Starling, when it fills the frame using either the 300, 400 and a 500 lens and at what level is the quality?

The more I read the reviews, the more I am looking forward to getting in to DSLR photography.

Dave B.

rezMole · Oct 3, 2005

DaveB said:
Listenning to the advice given, I am in no doubt that that the Canon EOS 350D is the camera for me, but am still unsure as the lens.

My idea was to get rid of the scope, but have decided that this would not be in my best interests (again on the advice given).

So, I am now looking for advice on a lens that would capture moving/flying birds. The Sigma 500 F4.5hsm would be my preferred choice after reading the articles/advice given on these pages, but would a 400 do me. How far is say a Starling, when it fills the frame using either the 300, 400 and a 500 lens and at what level is the quality?

The more I read the reviews, the more I am looking forward to getting in to DSLR photography.

Dave B.

You'll find that your pictures won't bring birds anywhere near as close as you may be expecting. A 500mm will magnify only about 15 times.

Having said this, you don't have to fill the frame to get a good picture. I often crop to about a quarter of the actual image, and the results are usually still good enough for an A4 print. For example, take a look at this flying Eider http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/47401/sort/1/cat/500/page/2. This is actually about a sixth of the original image and still retains a fair amount of detail. And this was taken with a Tamrom 200-500 zoom - not the best lens in the world! (It's pretty damn good for the price though - i can't afford a four grand lens, unfortuately).

christineredgate · Oct 3, 2005

Dave if you ever change your scope to a Sawrro,I have for sale an adaptor you can attach to a Canon SLR for digiscoping.not the magnification one has with the 4500,but it does take very clear images.£50 is the price,to buy new £270.

compa · Oct 4, 2005

DaveB said:
Listenning to the advice given, I am in no doubt that that the Canon EOS 350D is the camera for me, but am still unsure as the lens.

My idea was to get rid of the scope, but have decided that this would not be in my best interests (again on the advice given).

So, I am now looking for advice on a lens that would capture moving/flying birds. The Sigma 500 F4.5hsm would be my preferred choice after reading the articles/advice given on these pages, but would a 400 do me. How far is say a Starling, when it fills the frame using either the 300, 400 and a 500 lens and at what level is the quality?

The more I read the reviews, the more I am looking forward to getting in to DSLR photography.

Dave B.

FUN FUN FUN ... spending someone else's money

Please reconsider the 350D - for birding the 20D is wonderful. It is on and ready to take a photo in less than a tenth of a second from its sleep mode - just touch the shutter button. This lets you catch those pop-out-the-bush birds. Focus is fast fast fast (with the right lenses).

At high ISO speeds (up to 3200!) it is very clean - little noise. That means you can take photos in lower light.

It is a very good camera overall - give it a closer look.

I have the 20D along with the Canon 100-400mm zoom. That lens is very good out to about 60 feet. Beyond that and the image seems to degrade. Even using a tripod. The primes 400 or 500 are much better at distances. But please, be very conservative in considering what you can carry around weight wise. Don't forget the weight of the tripod and head. That 500mm may sound nice but after you carry it a while ...

rezMole said:
You won't be able to use the camera as a scope.

Ahh but you can! Look Here

Have fun!

limicole2 · Oct 4, 2005

A good choice but $$$

Hi dave,
I agree with Jim. 20D and canon 100-400mm IS (image stabilisation) is the best for you. Great for flying birds. No tripod!
But, It's depend on your Budget. A great mix but expensive $$$. 350D and a sigma or tamron lens can be a good compromise.
A 300mm lens with a 1.4 extender can be consider as a other compromise depending on your budget.

(I suggest to invest first on a great lens. These years, digital cameras change each 18 months. )

Claude
Québec, (French-Canada)

compa said:
FUN FUN FUN ... spending someone else's money

Please reconsider the 350D - for birding the 20D is wonderful. It is on and ready to take a photo in less than a tenth of a second from its sleep mode - just touch the shutter button. This lets you catch those pop-out-the-bush birds. Focus is fast fast fast (with the right lenses).

At high ISO speeds (up to 3200!) it is very clean - little noise. That means you can take photos in lower light.

It is a very good camera overall - give it a closer look.

I have the 20D along with the Canon 100-400mm zoom. That lens is very good out to about 60 feet. Beyond that and the image seems to degrade. Even using a tripod. The primes 400 or 500 are much better at distances. But please, be very conservative in considering what you can carry around weight wise. Don't forget the weight of the tripod and head. That 500mm may sound nice but after you carry it a while ...

Ahh but you can! Look Here

Have fun!

DaveB · Oct 4, 2005

Just when I thought i'd made up my mind :-C

I'm now looking at the possibility of purchasing a Canon 20D. To do this, I think that I would have to compromise on the 500mm lens. I like the idea of using one of these, other than the 2k price (Sigma) and the humping about. If I was to purchase a different lens, which would be my best option?

From the initial feedback, it sounds like the 100 - 400 zoom, but which one (Canon or Sigma)? Would the Sigma 75 - 400 zoom produce as good an image as the Canon 100 - 400 zoom? How big is the drop in quality when choosing the zoom as apposed to the 400 prime, i've heard that a converter could be used to increase the size to a 500?

The Canon 300 F4 with a 1.4 or a x2 converter (will the x2 allow AF with this lens) also looks to be a good choice. Choosing this option would allow me to buy a 20D camera and have over £500 to spare (enabling me to buy extra batteries and a larger card).

Lots more questions, but I want to get it right first time. I know that I wont have much to spend once the purchase has been made.

Thanks for all the help :t:

Dave B.

compa · Oct 4, 2005

I'm afraid that I'm not going to be much help on which lens to buy. While I have the Canon 100-400mm zoom, I'm not real happy with it for various reasons and plan on purchasing a 400mm prime soon. But which 400mm prime??????

Which lens to use depends greatly on your birding style, how much money you have to spend on fun and games, how much you plan to use your camera for other things besides birding and even your physical ability to carry the weight! No one here on these forums can really tell you which lens is right for you. We can only recount our experiences with various lenses.

Don't be fooled, nice sharp photos at any real distance require a tripod. In good light, with image stabilized lenses you can hand hold a 400mm lens and still get good images but they would have been better off a tripod! The point I'm trying to make, unless you are after really great photos, an 8-10x optical zoom point and shoot is a great option for 99.5% of the people. A 400mm lens on a DSLR only gives you around 12x of magnification.

DSLR photography is not cheap! Consider the versatility of the lenses. That 100-400mm lens is 3x to 12x - no wide shots are possible! You need to spend another $500 (or more) for a lens to cover that range. And you may find that you want to take some real close up shots of some insects - another $500 for a macro lens. One good point is that top quality Canon lenses (L series) maintain 80% or more of their value as used equipment and they will work with whatever camera body Canon is going to release in 2010!

I'm not trying to talk you out of SLR photography, just trying to help make sure you don't make mistakes! They can be expensive.

compa · Oct 4, 2005

DaveB said:
Just when I thought i'd made up my mind :-C

I'm now looking at the possibility of purchasing a Canon 20D. To do this, I think that I would have to compromise on the 500mm lens.

The Canon 300 F4 with a 1.4 or a x2 converter (will the x2 allow AF with this lens) also looks to be a good choice. Choosing this option would allow me to buy a 20D camera and have over £500 to spare (enabling me to buy extra batteries and a larger card).

Lots more questions, but I want to get it right first time. I know that I wont have much to spend once the purchase has been made.

Thanks for all the help :t:

Dave B.

I still have more to say! 3

In recommending the 20D I unwittingly caused a problem. With SLR's the real investment is in glass. Those lenses that cost an arm and at least a foot if not an entire leg. DSLR bodies come and go. They are improved upon every year or two and are designed to be replaced. It was the same with film bodies to some extent. Lenses are different.

The better lenses are made to last. 5-10 years is normal with some care. 20+ years if there are still bodies that support them! The Canon L series of lenses are very expensive, but as I said in my previous post, they maintain their value very well. Do not skimp on your lenses. You will regret it later.

If you have to get cheaper glass to afford the 20D - please go with the 350.

You will want to replace whichever camera body you get for one with the newest features in 2 years anyway. Those lenses last much longer. Buy the best lens you can afford!

I'm very sorry to keep you off balance like this but it is a very complicated subject. I hope my ramblings are at least somewhat helpful.

Digiscoping to DSLR Photography (1 Viewer)

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