SURVEY OF 50mm-66mm SCOPES (1 Viewer)

In the September issue of "Bird watching" magazine there is a survey of 20 scopes in the 50-66mm range. I thought this article might be of use to anyone who is considering buying a scope in this size range.

Do you know if this article is available on-line?

I'd like to see this article too but I live in Saudi Arabia and Birdwatching magazine isn't available here. I don't think it will be available online. If publishers put all their stuff online nobody would buy their magazines.

Hi there! Got the mag infront of me. No suprises really - Leica APO Televid 62 & Swarvo(HD model) voted best optically but also most expensive. Optically both got 9.5 out of 10. Zeiss got 9/10.

Next two highest rated optically were ........

Swarvo ATS 65 & Leica Televid 62 straight. Both got 9/10.

Nearest to these optically wasOpticron HR66 GA ED A with 8/10

Opticron IS50A looks good budget buy with 7.5/10, mid range was Kowa Prominar TSN 663 ED with 7/10.

I've only listed optical marks as I think this is most important.

My advice (forwhat its worth) - go 2nd hand! I use Swarvo ATS 80HD (old model) & Leica 10 x 50 BN bot hbought second hand. Mind you I'd been birding 35 years before saving enough pennys.

Try London Camera exchange website for second hand equipment. Got BN's @ 50% less than new price delivered with in two days.

Thanks for the info. I think I'll be buying the Swaro HD 65. I've looked at second-hand stuff on the net but it seems very expensive to me. I wouldn't want to pay much more than 1/2 price for 2nd hand stuff but often the price is 2/3 or even more.

I'm thinking of buying the 65 rather than the 80 because it's smaller and weighs less. Many people think that a lighter and smaller scope ultimately is used more. What are your thoughts on this?

Buy the way Phil. I notice that you are from Chester. Have you ever been to the RSPB reserve at Conway (actually Llandudno Junction)? I live near there and it's that reserve that first got mer interested in birding.

Shock, horror Leica optics comes top in a Birdwatching mag optics review
The Leica 62 is a very fine scope but the Swarovski 65 is a spectacular scope.

Andy

They actualy rated both scopes =, except for one catagory which was value for money. It was the same for the ED (Non HD) version of these scopes. Bearing in mind that the HD Lieca is about the same price as the Swaro ED, version I dont think there can be much argument in the VFM stakes.

Just for the record I own the Swaro (ED version) and it is a cracking scope, as per the review it is optically very good.

Paul

I'm a bit cross because my son left the mag in the hide at Rutland Water at the weekend, having only just paid out my £3-20 (a bit much for a small mag!) and had the chance to merely glance at the survey of small scopes.

I thought the survey was a typical modern magazine job - lightweight and very subjective. Their "optical performance" ratings are a touch misleading, too, surely? The new Kowa 60 Prominar, for example, provides any normal viewer with stunning images - yet it rates a 'mere' 7 or so in the survey with the Swaro at, if I remember, just 8.5/10. Hmm?

My son, Nick, has the Swaro 65ED - and it is undoubtedly a very fine piece of birding kit with the entirely useable 20-60x zoom; but at such a high price.

I've just bought a second-hand Kowa TSN3 Fluorite 30x (via this forum - a 100% fine experience: thanks Graham, you were a delight to do business with!). It will replace my much-loved Kowa TS601 with its TSN20xWW - a lovely, clear and light scope. I'm impressed that the TSN3 is similarly light on the shoulder.

You'd struggle to tell the difference at 30x between the TSN and the Swarovski, except the colour cast in the Swaro is all but neutral, with the Kowa a very slight yellow (the TS601 with the 20xWW gives a fine image, too - so easy to view, and what a wide field). Sharpness of both the Swarovski and the TSN are unquestionably of the highest order and in yesterday's cloudy early evening light, both scopes were impressively useable providing quite amazingly bright, wide images.

Was there an important difference? Hmm... I suppose the Swaro picked out fine detail on the far shore a tiny bit better. Well - I told myself it did, after all, I had bought the thing for my son. And yes, I am jealous, no way can we afford two.

The contrast in both was extremely good, and again, perhaps the Swarovski had the edge - but not very noticeably. Both Swaro and Kowa are lightweights, too - anyone carrying a Leica TA80 around for a day would be a touch envious, I feel sure.

If you're going for the Swarovski, you'll not, in any way at all, be disappointed - and I would imagine that in 99% of situations the 65 will perform as well as needed against the Swarovski 80 model (your shoulder will thank you, too!).

Pound for pound, though, I'm not sure you'll be 'knocked out' by the Swarovski - except by the initial and quite amazing thrill of admiring its appearance before you put it in its case (to do this objectively, though, be sure to place the scope on a tripod with the £1100+ receipt blue-tacked just below it!).

Let's face it, the Swaro truly is a modern design masterpiece combining form and function with the latest technology in a quite incredible way - full marks to their technical and aesthetic designers. But, again, that price?

Of course, what finally disappoints about both of these scopes is the missing feature of a magnet on the end to attract our feathered friends to you (you'd think Swaro would include one of these for the price they charge!). At our local res. yesterday we espied a mere single common sand and 2 greenshanks. But then a Hobby flew over and made the evening worthwhile!

Steve Campsall

PS BTW what a great birding forum this is - glad I found it at last, even if so belatedly.

Steve
Not been to Conway yet but intend to. Only just made it as far as Gronant this year to Little Tern colony! There are so many good sites within 20 minute drive of my house that I rarely venture further afield unless work takes me some where near a good spot.

Incidentally, I went for Swarvo 80, despite weight, because a lot of my birding is done on salt marshes and I appreciate the extra light gathering powers - especially when watching raptors or little egrets coming to roost.

The weight is a penalty but I'm quite used to that. What I can't get my head around is the best way to carry the tripod. I have a 2nd hand Manfrotti 200 which is fantastic but built like the Forth Bridge.

Thanks for posting the survey results and I must say they largely agree with my experience when testing the Leica 62 and Swaro 65 side by side.

I recently replied to a thread and described my experience and subsequent purchase and this survey,to me,makes the Leica 62 (non APO) the best value for money.

If anyone is interested the Thread was 'Kowa 663' and my reply was on 29 August; (can't see how to provide a link to another posting)

I tried out a selection of the scopes tested in the Birdwatching review and was a little surprised by the results, though less so after reading Andy's post

To my eyes the Swarovski 65hd gave a noticably superior image to that of the Leica, in fact the image from the 65mm Zeiss Diascope seemed every bit as good as the Leica.

Wine Man

Thanks for all your input. My choice is narrowed down to a Leica APO Televid 77 with 20-60x zoom or a Swarovski ATS65 HD with 20-60x zoom. The online discount prices are similar, (I couldn't run to the 80mm Swaro). The choice is down to whether I want the extra light gathering of the Leica or the compact size and weight of the Swaro. I cab't make my mind up :-(

Steve Rowe

Have you checked your PM's lately?

Paul

Can't see any logic in your choice process from what has been posted here;the Leica 77 and Swar 65 are not comparable by any of the criteria of this Thread.

I've always felt that the Leica is such a heavy scope to carry around, especially compared to the Swarovski 65 which is a very bright and light optic.

Here is a fine article on big scopes - it followed a really good article on smaller scopes:

http://betterviewdesired.com/bigscopes/index.html

I suppose you have already seen it, though!


Steve

ANyone out there with a Swaro ST 80? I've just purchased second hand at about 60% of new but it hasn't arrived yet. I'm thinking that if every air-glass surface presents some issues, then the ST might be a touch better than the angle version. Opinions????

Art.

Why should the straight be any different to the angle as far as air-glass surface? The only difference is that the prism has been rotated. Mirror surface, pechan prism, same prism.

Lucky you getting a Swaro 80 for a bargain price - hope it arrives soon.

Re light transmission, what you say about lens to air surfaces sounds spot on but I think that it would only be in older design scopes that this would apply.

All modern scopes use prisms and mirrors, presumably to fold the light in order to keep their physical length down. On that basis, straight and angled would be identical in light transmission.

I would choose angled every time - easier on the neck!

The Swaro website has a poor image of a cut through an At 80, and there seems to be an additional section that is devoted to bending the light again to get that angle. I can't really make it out. Maybe someone has a better image of that??