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UK raptor

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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 12:41   #1
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UK raptor

I took this (awful) photo of a red kite. When I got home I spotted that there was a falcon-like bird beyond it. I was thinking kestrel but I'm not sure. Any views? This was today in Surrey.
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 13:06   #2
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my best guess would be Peregrine with that deep chest and angular wing shape
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 13:48   #3
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Peregrine was my thought before looking at Tom's response.
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 14:21   #4
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It's a Sparrowhawk IMHO.

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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 16:09   #5
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Sparrowhawk for me too, those primary fingers standout as more of a feature of sparrowhawk than peregrine
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 16:13   #6
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Sparrowhawk for me too, those primary fingers standout as more of a feature of sparrowhawk than peregrine
But I think we can see it has a "tear streak" even without lightening the picture..?
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 17:03   #7
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The shape of the bird's left wing is clearly that of an accipiter and not a falco.

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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 17:34   #8
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To be honest my initial gut was of a Crow species, it is an odd angle, and the knuckle effect and fingers just give me that jizz.
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 18:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotherbirder View Post
The shape of the bird's left wing is clearly that of an accipiter and not a falco.

RB
By pure chance we can also see the right wing which looks somehow like a Peregrine Falcon wing, I don'st say it is one but I am pretty sure it is not a Sprawk (Gos maybe with that chest, an it's behind the Red Kite and not a small bird)
Pictures like these can be very deceptive, it's gut feeling and I may be comletely wrong and it is a crow

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/44840715694
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 18:53   #10
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It could even be a Buzzard
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 19:23   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tconzemi View Post
By pure chance we can also see the right wing which looks somehow like a Peregrine Falcon wing, I don'st say it is one but I am pretty sure it is not a Sprawk (Gos maybe with that chest, an it's behind the Red Kite and not a small bird)
Pictures like these can be very deceptive, it's gut feeling and I may be comletely wrong and it is a crow

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/44840715694
Interesting suggestion. There were ravens in the area at the time.
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 20:31   #12
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To be honest my initial gut was of a Crow species ...
my impression is of a corvid too - proportionately short tail, heavy chest, very ‘loose’ wing shape as can be seen in the video below or in the 2nd link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7bZP93-fEU

http://www.jakes-bones.com/2012/05/r...d-by-crow.html
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Old Friday 5th June 2020, 20:35   #13
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Crow
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 09:43   #14
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Corvid - most probably Carrion Crow. The apparent shape of the right wing is an artefact of the angle the photo is taken at. I can’t help feeling that this image exemplifies the problem with trying to identify birds ‘after the event’ from a photograph when simply watching it ‘live’ for a few moments would make an identification obvious.
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 09:49   #15
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Originally Posted by ryckfour View Post
Corvid - most probably Carrion Crow. The apparent shape of the right wing is an artefact of the angle the photo is taken at. I can’t help feeling that this image exemplifies the problem with trying to identify birds ‘after the event’ from a photograph when simply watching it ‘live’ for a few moments would make an identification obvious.
Thanks, it seems that we have some sort of consensus on crow. I agree with your point but I didn't see the bird until I looked at the photo.

By way of an addendum, there was a red kite at the same place today and it was being dive-bombed by the two local kestrels (who have a nest near-by). They looked tiny in comparison.
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 14:43   #16
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Originally Posted by Surreybirder View Post
Thanks, it seems that we have some sort of consensus on crow. I agree with your point but I didn't see the bird until I looked at the photo.

By way of an addendum, there was a red kite at the same place today and it was being dive-bombed by the two local kestrels (who have a nest near-by). They looked tiny in comparison.
Didn’t mean my post to sound like a criticism - I was simply highlighting the difficulties of looking at single shots compared to a moving bird.
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 16:08   #17
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Didn’t mean my post to sound like a criticism - I was simply highlighting the difficulties of looking at single shots compared to a moving bird.


I've learnt a lot from you guys and I know that if I (personally) 'scramble' for my camera and try and get a record shot then I could have - as ryckfour has stated - just watched the bird and made a few observations so even if I didn't get a clear enough shot of the bird then I know you guys, or even I myself, could then make a good guess as to what that bird was.

And just to add that looking at the first post and at those photos and then to read on and the discussion has led to it being a common Carrion Crow - wow, I didn't see that coming
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 18:17   #18
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FWIW, I believe that the anomalous lump left of head to be the possible heavy beak of a Raven?

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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 19:54   #19
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FWIW, I believe that the anomalous lump left of head to be the possible heavy beak of a Raven?

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That’s partly why I said ‘probably Carrion Crow’ the head is hard to make out and does look quite heavy but the difference in size between the two birds seems too great for it to be a Raven.
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 20:11   #20
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I clearly must be looking at a different image to everyone else!?

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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 21:44   #21
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I clearly must be looking at a different image to everyone else!?

RB
No RB!....it’s all speculation regarding definitive ID, I wouldn’t put my house on any of them!
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Old Saturday 6th June 2020, 22:54   #22
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Originally Posted by Deb Burhinus View Post
my impression is of a corvid too - proportionately short tail, heavy chest, very ‘loose’ wing shape as can be seen in the video below or in the 2nd link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7bZP93-fEU

http://www.jakes-bones.com/2012/05/r...d-by-crow.html
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Originally Posted by Rotherbirder View Post
I clearly must be looking at a different image to everyone else!?

RB
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
No RB!....it’s all speculation regarding definitive ID, I wouldn’t put my house on any of them!
Yes categoric ID may be beyond anyone I also totally agree, my gut said Crow, so thought I would throw it out there.

I imagined something similar to this image (borrowed from the web, not mine), foreshortened, so with a visually more narrow closed wing giving the impression of a BoP, but nicely showing the looseness on the other wing, which drew me more to a Corvid, our’s is looser still.

Deb’s video link is pretty good at showing the varied shapes, and in slow motion, at times, I almost get the shape of our bird.
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Old Sunday 7th June 2020, 05:08   #23
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Didn’t mean my post to sound like a criticism - I was simply highlighting the difficulties of looking at single shots compared to a moving bird.
No offence taken!
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