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Lesser Whitethroat (1 Viewer)

Richard Klim

Richard Klim

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Arnoud van den Berg, Dutch Birding, 6 Nov 2012: Vangst van een Siberische Braamsluiper in Bloemendaal op 17 en 20 oktober 2012 - achtergronden en hints voor herkenning.

With a little help from Google Translate, suggests that a forthcoming DB article based on research by Per Alström, Geoff Carey, Paul Leader and Urban Olsson will support the validity of 'Siberian/Blyth's Lesser Whitethroat' Sylvia curruca blythi (synonymised with nominate curruca by Shirihai et al 2001), and will hopefully clarify the status/distribution of 'Steppe/Central Asian Lesser Whitethroat' S c halimodendri.
 
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Richard Klim said:
With a little help from Google Translate, suggests that a forthcoming DB article based on research by Per Alström, Geoff Carey, Paul Leader and Urban Olsson will support the validity of 'Siberian/Blyth's Lesser Whitethroat' Sylvia curruca blythi (synonymised with nominate curruca by Shirihai et al 2001), and will hopefully clarify the status/distribution of 'Steppe/Central Asian Lesser Whitethroat' S c halimodendri.
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Google Translate can be untrustworthy sometimes ;).
What Arnoud is saying is that a paper in DB about the Dutch records of eastern LWs will have to wait until Per Alström, Geoff Carey, Paul Leader and Urban Olsson publish their findings (no venue specified). This is why he's is offering a preliminary compilation of the data on the website.
 
l_raty said:
Google Translate can be untrustworthy sometimes ;).
What Arnoud is saying is that a paper in DB about the Dutch records of eastern LWs will have to wait until Per Alström, Geoff Carey, Paul Leader and Urban Olsson publish their findings (no venue specified). This is why he's is offering a preliminary compilation of the data on the website.
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Thanks, Laurent. :t:

I was hoping that someone would correct me if I got the wrong end of the stick!

PS. And reading it again, I can't blame Google Translate. Anyway, good to know that work on this complex is in progress.
 
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Richard Klim said:
Arnoud van den Berg, Dutch Birding, 6 Nov 2012: Vangst van een Siberische Braamsluiper in Bloemendaal op 17 en 20 oktober 2012 - achtergronden en hints voor herkenning.

With a little help from Google Translate, suggests that a forthcoming DB article based on research by Per Alström, Geoff Carey, Paul Leader and Urban Olsson will support the validity of 'Siberian/Blyth's Lesser Whitethroat' Sylvia curruca blythi (synonymised with nominate curruca by Shirihai et al 2001), and will hopefully clarify the status/distribution of 'Steppe/Central Asian Lesser Whitethroat' S c halimodendri.
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Nothing planned for DB as far as I know!!
 
Paul Leader said:
Nothing planned for DB as far as I know!!
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Understood, Paul. The DB article would take your findings into account. Google Translate (tweaked a bit!)...
This autumn, just as in 2010, there were several reports of atypical Lesser Whitethroats Sylvia curruca with features of Central Asian taxa that would be the beginning of a series of winter observations. An article in the journal Dutch Birding on recent cases in the Netherlands should be postponed until researchers from Hong Kong and Sweden (Per Alström, Geoff Carey, Paul Leader and Urban Olsson; below Leader / Olsson) have published their findings on new taxonomic classifications and characteristics. Nevertheless it will be interesting to ringers and observers for the DB website to have a preliminary summary of the information currently available, even though it will soon become obsolete. The immediate reason for this summary is the trapping of a Siberian Lesser Whitethroat S c blythi in Bloemendaal, Noord-Holland, on 17 and 20 October 2012...
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Olsson et al

Olsson, Leader, Carey, Khan, Svensson & Alström (in press). New insights into the intricate taxonomy and phylogeny of the Sylvia curruca complex. Mol Phylogenet Evol. [abstract]

Identifies six major clades (vernacular names not suggested):
  1. S c blythi – Siberian Lesser Whitethroat
  2. S c halimodendri – Steppe Lesser Whitethroat
  3. S c margelanica – Margilan Lesser Whitethroat (incl telengitica, sometimes synonymised with halimodendri)
  4. S c althaea – Hume's Lesser Whitethroat
  5. S c curruca – Lesser Whitethroat
  6. S c minula – Desert Lesser Whitethroat
[Margilan (Fergana, Uzbekistan) is not in the breeding range of margelanica. More suitable vernacular name probably needed: Chinese? Stolzmann's?...]​
 
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Richard Klim said:
Olsson, Leader, Carey, Khan, Svensson & Alström (in press). New insights into the intricate taxonomy and phylogeny of the Sylvia curruca complex. Mol Phylogenet Evol. [abstract]

Identifies six major clades (vernacular names not suggested):
  1. S c blythi – Siberian Lesser Whitethroat
  2. S c halimodendri – Steppe Lesser Whitethroat
  3. S c margelanica – Margilan Lesser Whitethroat (incl telengitica, sometimes synonymised with halimodendri)
  4. S c althaea – Hume's Lesser Whitethroat
  5. S c curruca – Lesser Whitethroat
  6. S c minula – Desert Lesser Whitethroat
[Margilan (Fergana, Uzbekistan) is not in the breeding range of margelanica. More suitable vernacular name probably needed: Chinese? Stolzmann's?...]​
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Richard,

Interesting comments and suggestions for common names. Halimodendri is not really a steppe species but a true desert species. As such I would probably retain Desert Lesser Whitethroat for that population and rename minula (which has much the smaller range) using Xinjiang or Tarim Lesser Whitethroat reflecting the bulk of its' breeding range (probably the later given that halimodendri breeds in n Xinjiang). Options for margelanica seem few. Chinese Lesser Whitethroat would be more appropriate for minula which is a Chinese breeding endemic unlike margelanica which also breeds in Mongolia and Russia. I would probably stick with Margelanic Lesser Whitethroat which is at least already in the literature (I tend to prefer to use an exisiting common name if a suitable one exists). For althea I tend to prefer 'Mountain' over 'Hume's'.
 
Common names

Good points, Paul. And thanks for giving us another very interesting paper!

Concerning existing common names...

Although appropriate, Shirihai et al's 'Mountain' (for althaea) doesn't seem to have gained much traction in the literature. 'Hume's' (althaea) and 'Desert' (minula) are now in quite widespread use, even if the latter is not entirely suitable. Both are used by (at least) IOC, OSME, China Bird Report, Voous 1977, Monroe & Sibley 1993, Beaman 1994, Porter & Aspinall 2010, Grimmett et al 2011, Ayé et al 2012 and Rasmussen & Anderton 2012. 'Hume's' is also used by Dickinson 2003, BirdLife, Clements, HBW and King 1997; and 'Desert' is also used by Shirihai et al 2001, Dutch Birding, MacKinnon & Phillipps 2000 and Brazil 2009. The transfer of 'Desert' from minula to halimodendri could result in considerable confusion.

I'd used 'Steppe' for halimodendri on the basis of Shirihai et al's description as "widespread on Kazakhstan plains and steppes", but acknowledge that it's not really appropriate. Dutch Birding and OSME use 'Central Asian', but that seemed rather ambiguous to me.

As I've argued before elsewhere, I particularly dislike 'Margelanic'. It's a (non-existent?) English word which was presumably created from the scientific name by Shirihai et al (and subsequently adopted by Clements). Margelanica is derived from the type locality – Marguelane, Uzbekistan. Even if transcribed as 'Margilan' (the usual modern name for the city), this is far outside the breeding range of the taxon and therefore rather uninformative as a common name. However, I suspect that 'Margelanic' will endure...
 
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From my reading of the abstract the conclusions are based solely on the mitochondrial cyt b gene. If that is so, might it not be a bit premature to rearrange the subspecies based on that?
 
dnsallen said:
From my reading of the abstract the conclusions are based solely on the mitochondrial cyt b gene. If that is so, might it not be a bit premature to rearrange the subspecies based on that?
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Well, apart from the identification of six or seven clades (which can largely be associated with existing widely-recognised subspecies), there's no proposal to define alternative species limits at this stage.
 
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I understand your dislike for Margelinic, more for the fact that is a made up word than it being geographically unhelpful (although Shirihai et al 2001 state that Margilan is in Kyrgyzstan, which is perhaps more unhelpful!). However, it does seem to have gained some acceptance, and I really cannot think of a more suitable altenative.

Shirihai et el 2001 are also wrong about halimodendri being widespread on Kazakh plains and steppes. Whilst the type locality is the Kirgiz Steppe (which I have not visited) I have only seen it breeding in Kazakhstan in desert shrub and it absent from the areas of steppe I have visited. They state similarly of minula: 'largely dry steppes in W China, from Xinjiang east to Ningxia'. Having spent far more time in Xinjaing than in Kazakhstan, I am much more familiar with the area and can confiently state that this is nonsense, it is a pure desert species preferring stands of tamarisk.

I still think that 'Desert' is best applied to halimodendri but understand that this might cause confusion. In which case Kazakh Lesser Whitethroat is an option for halimodendri.

Likewise, I prefer Mountain to Hume's for althaea as Hume also described minula (and did so before describing althaea), so it could be argued that minula in better placed to be called Hume's Lesser Whitethroat.

The paper aims to associate genetically identifiable populations with named taxa, and does not propose any species level taxonomic changes. There is further work in hand which will also take into account vocalisations (song and calls) and morphology (based on trapped birds from known populations), and which should inform further decisions on species limits.
 
Paul Leader said:
I still think that 'Desert' is best applied to halimodendri but understand that this might cause confusion. In which case Kazakh Lesser Whitethroat is an option for halimodendri.

Likewise, I prefer Mountain to Hume's for althaea as Hume also described minula (and did so before describing althaea), so it could be argued that minula in better placed to be called Hume's Lesser Whitethroat.

The paper aims to associate genetically identifiable populations with named taxa, and does not propose any species level taxonomic changes. There is further work in hand which will also take into account vocalisations (song and calls) and morphology (based on trapped birds from known populations), and which should inform further decisions on species limits.
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Paul,
Many thanks for your cogent nomenclatural suggestions, and also for advising about the work in hand. It may not make me any less patient, but it will lessen my grumbling! :t:
MJB
PS I'll now try to suggest a candidate alternative to 'Margilan'!
 
MJB said:
Paul,
I'll now try to suggest a candidate alternative to 'Margilan'!
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Lots of snow outside, and so I've done a little digging.

On the assumption that the margelanica samples from Olsson et al 2013 will eventually reflect the actual breeding distribution, then any geographical or historical reference that generally applies to that area may serve as a qualifier for the English name for that taxon, should it then need one. There is a recent precedent, in Gansu Warbler.

The word Gobi, which seemingly originates from a Chinese word whose pronunciation approximates to ‘Go-vee’ (allowing for the incredibly subtle inflections in Chinese languages that bypass the Occidental ear), meaning ‘semi-desert’, when applied in the broadest sense to describe the Gobi desert from the Dzungarian Alatau in the west and the Taklamakan Desert in the east, would cover the taxon’s area rather well. Gobi Lesser Whitethroat or Gobi Whitethroat might be candidate names.o:D

Genghis (or Jenghiz) Khan (known in his youth as Temujin) by 1219 had expanded his empire to cover the taxon’s area, but subsequently controlled an area from eastern Europe to the China Sea, and so I reluctantly conclude that the magnificent name of Genghis Khan Whitethroat is a non-starter! :-C

Early empires that covered the taxon’s area were the Liao and the Jin (sometimes known as the Jurchen); do Liao, Jin or Jurchen Whitethroat (or Lesser…) ring your chimes in any way?;)
MJB
 
Richard Klim said:
How about Xibei Lesser Whitethroat? ;)
Xibei = Northwest China, including Gansu, Qinghai and Xinjiang, and therefore encompasses most of the breeding range of margelanica.
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Ah, but then you have the argument about current pronunciation of Chinese transliterated words. Ancient names are not so controversial in that way...;)
MJB
PS Don't forget about the Mongolian part of the imputed distribution...
 
margelanica

MJB said:
Ah, but then you have the argument about current pronunciation of Chinese transliterated words. Ancient names are not so controversial in that way...
MJB
PS Don't forget about the Mongolian part of the imputed distribution...
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Mike, there are countless common names that reflect the core rather than complete breeding distribution of a taxon. But that still seems infinitely better than a common name highlighting a random location where a migrant individual was once encountered.

But you're probably right – Xibei would inevitably result in some cringeworthy pronunciations, and I admit that my tongue was (slightly) in cheek. ;)
 
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njlarsen said:
My problem with Margilan is that it looks like a misspelled Magellan and therefore makes me think South America.

Niels
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Or worse, Magellan pronounced sarcarstically by an arch cockeney (perhaps Dick van Dyke).

I agree, far from ideal.

But the main thing is to get a split sorted so we get a tick. Eyes on the ball guys. Ignore the non-starters.

John
 
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