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The $1,000,000 question-is it a Whinchat? (1 Viewer)

ColonelBlimp

ColonelBlimp

What time is bird?
I was up on Haworth Moors by the Bronte waterfalls yesterday (North Yorkshire), trying to make my pathetic life list expand a little.

After tick 1) of Meadow Pipit, there was a chat of some sort on a wall. I identified this via my Collins guide as a Whinchat, the clinching factors being (I think) a white stripe above the forehead and a fairly large ochre breast.

However, I'm wondering about it having been a Stonechat, as some of my books say that Whinchats are just returning from migration in dribs and drabs, and Stonechats are here all year round. As for habitat, all my books say different things, with the rough grassland/moorland present favouring Stonechat in one book and Whinchat in another.

Is a Whinchat plausible? I would appreciate advice about which to tick! o:D
 
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ColonelBlimp said:
I was up on Haworth Moors by the Bronte waterfalls yesterday (North Yorkshire), trying to make my pathetic life list expand a little.

After tick 1) of Meadow Pipit, there was a chat of some sort on a wall. I identified this via my Collins guide as a Whinchat, the clinching factors being (I think) a white stripe above the forehead and a fairly large ochre breast.

However, I'm wondering about it having been a Stonechat, as some of my books say that Whinchats are just returning from migration in dribs and drabs, and Stonechats are here all year round. As for habitat, all my books say different things, with the rough grassland/moorland present favouring Stonechat in one book and Whinchat in another.

Is a Whinchat plausible? I would appreciate advice about which to tick! o:D
Click to expand...

Whinchat is certainly possible - and from the description I would say the most likely.

Can I have my $1 000 000 now please?
 
I don't think it was a female as the black parts on the head were really dark black.

My educated guesses are male stonechat or male whinchat, my main wonder is whether the time of year precludes it being a Whinchat.
 
Both birds occur in similar habitat. Whinchats haven't arrived yet, from your description I would say there is nothing to rule out Stonechat.
Although Stonechats can show a supercillium, Whinchats have a much more distinctive facial pattern.
 
Ghostly Vision said:
In my opinion unlikely to be a Whinchat in Yorkshire yet.

It would be difficult to clinch it on the description you have given.

Sean
Click to expand...

Hi Sean,

Nearly fell out of my car window on 30th March, although in Southern Spain, I had male Whinchat and MR in Granada area had one at the beginning of March. Both were extremely early birds.

:t:
 
In my opinion unlikely to be a Whinchat in Yorkshire yet.

It would be difficult to clinch it on the description you have given.

Sean
Click to expand...

I can't really give any more detail than I have because it flew off after about 15 seconds and it was rather gusty up there, with rather poor visibility.

If it can't be a Whinchat yet I'll tick Stonechat as it was one or the other.
 
ColonelBlimp said:
I can't really give any more detail than I have because it flew off after about 15 seconds and it was rather gusty up there, with rather poor visibility.

If it can't be a Whinchat yet I'll tick Stonechat as it was one or the other.
Click to expand...

It would be a brave man who said that a bird 'can't' be something based only on the calendar.

I have seen Swallows in November and there have been Sandwich Terns in this area (Kent) on and off all Winter for example: both of which are 'not possible' if you believe traditional wisdom about when they 'should' be about.

And I think it is generally accepted that migration is taking place earlier than it once did.
 
David FG said:
It would be a brave man who said that a bird 'can't' be something based only on the calendar.

I have seen Swallows in November and there have been Sandwich Terns in this area (Kent) on and off all Winter for example: both of which are 'not possible' if you believe traditional wisdom about when they 'should' be about.

And I think it is generally accepted that migration is taking place earlier than it once did.
Click to expand...

I think you may be stretching the point a bit far; winter records of Sandwich Terns and Swallow have been occurring for a while now and are well known. Whinchat are not in the same category, so it would be an unusual record that far north in early April. No-one's saying it can't be... just that it's pretty unlikely, and that the description matches Stonechat.

I'd recommend ticking neither if you don't know for sure what it was... you're bound to see another one soon, and identify it having done the research now.
 
dbradnum said:
I think you may be stretching the point a bit far; winter records of Sandwich Terns and Swallow have been occurring for a while now and are well known. Whinchat are not in the same category, so it would be an unusual record that far north in early April. No-one's saying it can't be... just that it's pretty unlikely, and that the description matches Stonechat.

I'd recommend ticking neither if you don't know for sure what it was... you're bound to see another one soon, and identify it having done the research now.
Click to expand...


Whinchats in Yorkshire in early April are not in the same category yet.

Having said that, I do agree with you, and would say - having read the additional post by CB - that it probably was a Stonechat.

I also agree that it is probably best not to 'tick' it at all.
 
I think you should tick it as Stonechat.

I personally think its perfectly ok, especially for a beginner, if narrowed down to a choice of a common and rare species to assume the former.

It's meant to be a hobby not a competition, he saw a bird he has never seen before for the first time, he's done his research.
Yes if you continue to bird you will see plenty more, be more confident about iding, better views etc.

In the meantime don't waste your time living in frustration and TICK IT.

Using high probabilities to assume common species was what I was taught when reading bird books when I was kid. My books, rightly in my opinion, told me to note habitat, location and time of year and to use as an aid to identification.

By the way there was a wintering Whinchat in Manchester a few years ago
 
That's a pretty erudite and encouraging post, Steven. I hope I don't denegrade it much by agreeing totally with it.
Definitely tick the bird - (if these things matter to you).
 
Steven Astley said:
I think you should tick it as Stonechat.

I personally think its perfectly ok, especially for a beginner, if narrowed down to a choice of a common and rare species to assume the former.
Click to expand...

Generally agree, but better if you can conclusively Id the commoner bird on something more than probability - otherwise how are you going to Id something rarer ;)
 
I'll probably not tick either as of yet, and try to get up there again soon to have a more extensive look-it's a great place for birding, and had I had a bit more time I would have probably got quite a few more!

I'm trying to be quite strict with my list, so for now I'll try to get a more solid tick later.

I could have sworn it had a light supercilium though!!!
 
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