Imm. Altamira or Orange Oriole? Quint. Roo, Mexico (1 Viewer)

What do I look for to distinguish Orange Oriole from immature Altamira? Both have similar features:

• orange mantles (greenish washed in female Orange/imm. Altamira)
• black faces
• white edges to primaries
• a white epaulet/wingbar respectively.

Attached are the pics which sparked this question.

Educate me! And thanks in advance!

Your birds all show two white wing bars while Altamira generally will show one white (the lower) and the second colored like the body

Niels

Tricky, I'd stick to the adult males . FWIW I think there's too much black on the face for Orange. Why not Hooded?

I did not even seriously consider that there could be a need to look at a third species, I should have known better re Mexican orioles.

Now that I pull the head out of the sand, 2nd and 3rd photo shows hooded: black on the throat is wide enough to almost form a right angle at the eye, something essentially limited to Hooded.

What I wrote about how to separate the two species initially asked about still holds.

Niels