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Slave flash syncro issue? (1 Viewer)

mike_gss

VERY new birder
Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place for this, neither is it a bird-related question but here goes...

I have a very old Vivitar 286 flashgun (c.35 years old - it still works on ASA and DIN if anyone remembers those! :) ) which is built like a tank and still works perfectly. I know it's not TTL metering on my Canon but it still does a great job. I recently bought a slave unit to fire the flash while off camera but an initial run of test shots seemed to show that although the Vivitar fired, it seemed to have no effect on the final image.

I rigged the set up with a mirror so that I could see both the built-in flash and the slave flash. All the shots (but three) showed that, while both flash units fired, only the on-camera flash registered on the final image.

I kept the shutter speed to 1/100 or longer and also varied whether the flash fired synchronous with the first and second shutter curtains but it didn't appear to make any difference.

Is there something basic I'm doing wrong? Any clues would be very useful.

Many thanks!
 
Some slave units I have used were triggered by a second flash. A lot of early digital cams emitted two flashes for a variety of reasons. The first flash (pre-flash) was used variously for focussing, red eye reduction and a few other reasons I cannot remember.

Several of the slaves were adjustable for single or double flash operation. I remember at least one Vivitar flashgun I owned from that vintage had a built in slave function that had to be set up for single or double flash.

I assume that you have the current set-up so that your external slave release is set correctly, that any slave setting on the gun is turned off if you are using a seperate external slave, and your camera is only producing one flash.

If you have anti-redeye running on your camera it will be producing a double flash that may be triggering the slave prematurely, before the shutter opens.

There are variations on this that depend on which camera you own and which slave trigger you are using, so this answer cannot be definitive. The following may help.

http://dpanswers.com/content/optical_flash.php

Just about every modern camera triggers the flash so that the flash is triggered when the shutter is fully open, or at high speed at first shutter blind release, this was not always the case with a lot of film cameras, I assume we are talking digital here?

Your problem used to be very common before manufacturers produced compatible cameras and slave flashes.

It might help if you tell us what cameras you are using and which triggering slave. Can you confirm that it is a 286 as I thought that was more recent gun.

My earliest Vivitar gun had a trigger voltage that could stun an electric eel at a hundred paces, let alone fry a modern camera, the slave trigger was a must with that one.

Its usually sortable.
 
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Hi iveljay,

Many thanks for all the info - very useful. My mistake, it's a Vivitar 283, not 286 (I was probably thinking of ancient computers at the time). I bought it in the early 80s I think. There is actually a picture of a 283 about halfway down your linked article.

From what you say, my problem does seem to be that the built-in flash fires twice but at an undetectable interval apart. The link you provided goes into more detail...

The link explains that on-camera flashguns (i.e. built-in flashes) use TTL metering which consists of one flash to evaluate the subject (with the shutter closed) followed almost instantly by a second flash which correctly illuminates the subject synchronous with the shutter opening. The first flash triggers the slave but it happens while the shutter is still closed, therefore it's the second built-in flash that exposes the captured image...but by now of course the slave flash has already fired so its effects are lost. The interval must indeed be very, very short as I couldn't visibly detect it. (The link article states "microseconds")

My slave trigger is a basic Hama model with no facility to set on which flash the unit fires.

The remedy apparently is to switch off TTL metering in the camera and use manual flash. Unfortunately my camera body is the Canon 100D - an entry-level body with fewer functions than many others and I can't find an option to turn TTL metering off. I can change the TTL metering mode from "Evaluative" to "Average" but other than disabling the flash entirely (which would defeat the whole object), I can't turn off TTL metering.

Looks like I'm stuck with this issue until I upgrade the camera body.

Still, at least I now have an answer to the puzzle so many thanks once again :t:
 
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Early 283s made in Japan have a trigger voltage that should never go anywhere that directly connects to a digital camera. Certainly at least some of the later Malasian made models were safe, exactly when they changed the design is a bit uncertain. A really great gun though.

Unfortunately all the kit I once owned that would get around your problem has long gone.

J
 
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I assume that its a later model 283, seemingly even later Japanese versions were OK, which is likely if you've already used it on camera. It has a published guide number of 110, ft, ISO 100. However that was regarded as optimistic for most puposes and anything between 80 - 110 was used.
You will have difficulty getting that power in a modern unit without spending lots of £££. With its zoom attachment it was quite good for birds. It wasn't advertised as 'The Light Machine' for nothing and Vivitar churned out a whole load of components and modules that turned it into a true profesional systems flash. I had two with power control modules etc. + a 285, you could light anything, and it was pretty well indestuctable, clearly a fan speaking here.

Vivitar did produce a descendent of this gun with a built in slave which would 'learn' your camera from a test flash and work out what it was doing with pre-flashes and synchronise appropriately, it didn't take the goodies, wasn't as well built and definitely didn't become an industry standard like the 283. I once had one of these digi versions, after completing my collection of hens teeth....

To be fair digi cams now have far higher ISO capability that make the need for real power superfluous for most jobs, other than wild bird photography, which actually makes this thread kind of relevant.
 
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Thanks for all the comments and advice guys. Yes, the 283 has been through quite a lot over the years but... as you say... indestructible (within reason!). It was the only thing I kept when I made the transition from film to digital well over a decade ago and sold all my 35mm kit. The only thing that "broke" on mine is the thin disc of plastic with the (entirely cosmetic) Vivitar logo that sat on the face of the front sensor - I guess the adhesive finally became too brittle to keep it on and it got lost! I still see photos of press packs / papperazi etc. from the 70s/80s where everyone seems to have had one.

I just thought, as a slave, it would make an interesting addition as an off-camera sidelight or bounce-light for portraiture. Maybe as nikonmike says I'll just by a cheap manual flash for the on-camera hot shoe and use that instead of the built-in.

I've never really thought to use flash for bird photos (on the assumption that most birds would be too far away) - I'll give it a try.

Happy flashing!
 
One of the attachments for the 283 was a 'zoom lens' that was very effective for longer lenses. As with all accessories for it, it was oversize and highly efficient. That front sensor was removable so you could mount variable power controls etc, so they did get a bit of a bashing. Happy days.
 
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