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Treecreeper ID, Poland (1 Viewer)

Max S.

Well-known member
Would it be possible to ID these Treecreepers found in Poland?

1 - 16.07.2019 Roztoczanski NP
2 - 07.07.2019 Ojcowski NP (Eurasian Treecreeper?)
 

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3 - 04.07.2019 Ojcowski NP
 

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Oh well, could you point out which birds are juvs?

And to clarify - photos 1-2, 2-4, and 5-7 each show a different bird.
 
Photo 2 shows the wing pattern well enough to be sure it is Eurasian.

Photos 3-4 look like a juvenile, with very fresh feathers with white spots on the upper mantle; not sure which species.

Can't see enough of the bird in photos 5-7 to ID, unfortunately.
 
I think the bird in pictures 3-4 can identified as Eurasian with confidence:

in juvenile Short-Toed with still growing and such a stubby bill like in this bird, the bill is often more strongly curved (I write normally, because I have not seen enough juvenile Treecreepers to be sure of variation). And the bill would be to short if fully developed for Short-Toed.

The Underparts are gleaming white even on the flanks

Please note, that this bird was taken in the range of the subspecies familiaris, which has greater and whiter spots on the upperparts. In the Challenge-Book by Martin Garner the map for this subspecies covers entire Poland, but Eurasian on the German/Polish boarder showed upperparts not different from birds I had seen elsewhere in Europe (brown upperparts with "normal" white spots without frosty appearance), but some showed striking gleaming white underparts. An integration zone is the be expected in subspecies. (For what its worth attach pictures of an Eurasian Treecreeper from Chojna/E-Poland to illustrate this point)

Rump seems to be contrasting brown (better for Eurosaian) but Im not sure about this: it seems somewhat unnatural to me, to much pronounced than my experience.

The forecrown seems to be spotted white (pro Eurasian), but the picture quality is not so good to exclude an photographic artefact or feather shafts.

The wingpattern is difficult to judge, as Nutcracker said with very fresh and therefore broad and white feathertips, but I dont see anything that speaks against Eurasian: broad white tips around primary tips, the right primary spacing for familiaris, alula pattern is spot on (but so variable).
 

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Thank you very much for the ID and extensive info. :)
As for the forecrown, it is spotted - I remember this from the field and there not an photo artefact.
 
Hallo Max,

looking at the pictures again and on a different screen I see that the forecrown indeed looks spotted (easy with your information, I know or am I biased now?).

Im always looking for Eurasian Treecreeper from the contact/integration zone because as I wrote from the few I have seen, many showed striking white underparts. But I have seen similar birds in S-Germany, Austria and Italy, so Im always willing to learn from posts like yours.

I attach two more pictures of the same bird and one more from Ognica in W-Poland (3rd picture).
By the way, Chojna is in W-Poland, and not in East, my mistake.

So thank you for your pictures!

Alexander Stöhr
 

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The Underparts are gleaming white even on the flanks

Please note, that this bird was taken in the range of the subspecies familiaris, which has greater and whiter spots on the upperparts. In the Challenge-Book by Martin Garner the map for this subspecies covers entire Poland, but Eurasian on the German/Polish boarder showed upperparts not different from birds I had seen elsewhere in Europe (brown upperparts with "normal" white spots without frosty appearance), but some showed striking gleaming white underparts. An integration zone is the be expected in subspecies. (For what its worth attach pictures of an Eurasian Treecreeper from Chojna/E-Poland to illustrate this point)

a).

Her's a familiaris from St Petersburg in Russia
 

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Sorry I'm a bit late to the last posts, but I forgot to subscribe to the thread...

Alexander, I've got some more photos of a Eurasian (and some Short-Toed) Treecreeper from last winter. I can add them if you'd like.
 
Hello Max,

I am always keen for pictures of Eurasian Treecreepers from the (suspected) integradiation zone for both ssp., so I would like it when you post more pictures.

Greetings,
Alexander Stöhr
 
In that case I'm adding some photos of an Eurasian found on 25.01.2019 in Kraków.
 

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Can I gatecrash? I saw this treecreeper today in southern bavaria. Can it be ID'd?
 

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Pic 4 in the first post of this thread shows the hind toe quite clearly. Is it possible to ID based on the toe length only?
 
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