New Generation Tract Toric 10X42 Schott HT (1 Viewer)

Chosun Juan · Mar 21, 2018

[email protected] said:
Does the Maven B.1 8x42/ 10x42 series use use Schott HT glass which sells for $900.00? That is going to make the Tract's even look better at their $200.00 lower price point than the Maven's. What is Flat Multicoating? Does it have anything to do with a flat field?

jgraider said:
Good question, and one I asked Jon at Tract. He said there are no field flattening lenses/engineering involved. The flat mult-icoating thing, I took, as a name for the latest, greatest lens coatings.

Tract spells this out. 'Flat multicoating' would refer to fully multicoated AR (anti reflection) coatings and glass spec (HT) working in concert to provide a flat(ish) transmission curve in the range 400nm to 700nm. This is to provide better colour rendition, more neutral white balance, and brightness. Tract even say there will be a peak around the green. Good moves :t:

It has nothing to do with field flattening elements which they don't have.

Chosun :gh:

NDhunter · Mar 21, 2018

bluespiderweb said:
It sounds very reasonable to me, that you are just using common sense in your calculations. If it's true that there are many Schott plants and types, then sure, you don't have to specify, nor would it mean much to any of us, but rather it does lend its name to the advertising, and ultimately, to the quality of the glass used. But how would you ever compare Schott's many offerings to the others? Splitting hairs here-the proof is in your eyes, or the tests after someone runs them! We probably can't see the difference in many, though it probably all adds up in specs-good glass, good coatings, good design, and then you have a winner, if you back it all up with warranty and service that lasts. It sounds pretty simple, but it's really not.

There will always be newcomers offering tasty bits, but not all deliver down the road. I do hope Tract will be different, and I think their first version was pretty nice as is, to my eyes. That's a debate right there, but that is what it is! Buy and try-the only way to know for sure.

Barry:

That is a good common sense explanation of the situation.

Tract must have felt it was time to bring in a new (improved) model
and that is usually a marketing thing.

It is very hard to determine what glass is used in any binocular, as that
is just a small part of the total equation of design. A flatter color spectrum
needs coatings to match the rest.

I own a Tract Toric 8x42, and find it is a very nice binocular. I really like
the build quality, and the eyecups are metal and superb.

If they have some improvements, then I say very good. I like to see
progress in optics.

Jerry

pbjosh · Mar 21, 2018

Chosun Juan said:
Bear in mind that some Japanese glass (or indeed others) can have individual products that are the equal (or more) of Schott glass depending on their design parameters.

This is part of what I was trying to imply above. I think it's worth waiting and seeing what the finished product is like before drooling about the new Torics. I also think it's interesting how opinions of pure optical performance of the MHG are generally pretty good, but somewhat mixed with a few detractors. The two pair I've looked through now (non critically but still reasonable use) impressed me roughly to the same level as the Conquest HD and I do love the FOV and weight. The only ergonomic niggles are the kind of loose diopter lock and the rubber surrounds on the objective end of the bins being on/off affairs, they seem loose fitting to me.

Chosun Juan said:
An $80 Bushnell Legend M compares well to the Zeiss Conquest HD ! I think the Tract has its sights set a little higher ..... well done :t:

I disagree here. I've looked through 3 different Zen-Ray ED3 8x43, and my mother owns a pair, and I've looked through 4-5 8x42 Conquest HD and I own a pair. None of the ED3's I've seen seem to hold a candle to the Conquest HD for my likes and to my eyes. They off-axis image quality falls off both sooner and more dramatically than the Conquest HD 8x42, they have wicked pincushion distortion, and I would say build quality and ergonomics are a good step behind, in my opinion. The ED3's are still excellent at their price but I think the gap from the ED3 to the Conquest HD is much larger than the gap from the Conquest to an Alpha.

Who knows, next time I'm back in the US for an extended time maybe I'll make use of return policies and actually get ahold of a Monarch HG and Toric, I'd like to spend more time with the MHG even though I have no need or desire for another x42, and the Toric does peak curiosity a good bit.

Chosun Juan · Mar 21, 2018

pbjosh said:
.....I disagree here. I've looked through 3 different Zen-Ray ED3 8x43, and my mother owns a pair, and I've looked through 4-5 8x42 Conquest HD and I own a pair. None of the ED3's I've seen seem to hold a candle to the Conquest HD for my likes and to my eyes. They off-axis image quality falls off both sooner and more dramatically than the Conquest HD 8x42, they have wicked pincushion distortion, and I would say build quality and ergonomics are a good step behind, in my opinion. The ED3's are still excellent at their price but I think the gap from the ED3 to the Conquest HD is much larger than the gap from the Conquest to an Alpha.

Who knows, next time I'm back in the US for an extended time maybe I'll make use of return policies and actually get ahold of a Monarch HG and Toric, I'd like to spend more time with the MHG even though I have no need or desire for another x42, and the Toric does peak curiosity a good bit.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the ED3/Conquest HD thing then ! o

.... nothing wrong with that of course, we each have our own preferences, and our eyes see what only they can see. To my eyes the Zens smoke the Conquests. I can't abide by the Conquest's dirty Martian reddish brown colour cast, and narrow gutted 8x Fov. I agree with the Zen's wicked (I have said wild :hippy: :bounce:

pincushion distortion in the outer field (very wide though it is) - it's interesting though that virtually no-one mentions it with the identical Bushnell Legend M's. Unless you are chopping and changing between flat field designs though, this is not an issue as your eyes readily adapt, and I find it gives a somewhat quasi 3D view too. Unit to unit variability might be a bit greater with the Zen's, and ultimate quality levels a tad below, but the difference is not great. Certainly not 10x greater in the case of the discount Bushnell Legend M's ! :eek!: I can't agree on the ergonomics statement either. Superb on the ED3, and yukky on the Conquest HD for me. Each to their own though. I also very much like the ergonomics of the Nikon Monarch MHG.

Comparison between the new Tract Toric HT and the Nikon MHG would be very interesting, the proof as always will be in the pudding - I hope you (or someone) get a chance to try them soon and post your impressions. Comparison between old and new Torii would be of quite the interest too. :cat:

Chosun :gh:

denco@comcast.n · Mar 21, 2018

jgraider said:
Good question, and one I asked Jon at Tract. He said there are no field flattening lenses/engineering involved. The flat mult-icoating thing, I took, as a name for the latest, greatest lens coatings.

Thanks. Schott HT glass and improved coatings will make a big difference in the Tract's and make them even more of a value. They are already a remarkable bargain. It is amazing they can make all those improvements and only raise the price by $50.00.

black crow · Mar 21, 2018

Comparison between the new Tract Toric HT and the Nikon MHG would be very interesting,

I took a look over at Amazon at the Nikon MHG and there were three reviews. All three seemed like knowledgeable reviewers who own or have owned several high end binoculars. They were not just one or two sentence reviews. All three gave these only 3 out of five stars for various reasons. I was surprised.
https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-MONARCH-10X42-Binocular-16028/dp/B01N249ENQ#customerReviews

denco@comcast.n · Mar 22, 2018

:-C

black crow said:
I took a look over at Amazon at the Nikon MHG and there were three reviews. All three seemed like knowledgeable reviewers who own or have owned several high end binoculars. They were not just one or two sentence reviews. All three gave these only 3 out of five starts for various reasons. I was surprised.
https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-MONARCH-10X42-Binocular-16028/dp/B01N249ENQ#customerReviews

The first review is mine. I didn't care for the Nikon MHG's. I felt they had quite a bit of CA and the eye cups were too short for the eye relief for my eye sockets. The optics IMO felt strained and nervous.:eek!: I didn't think the build quality was equal to LX series of past. I guess the other reviewers didn't like them too much either.:-C

black crow · Mar 22, 2018

3

I should have known.

cycleguy · Mar 22, 2018

Chosun Juan said:
Tract spells this out. 'Flat multicoating' would refer to fully multicoated AR (anti reflection) coatings and glass spec (HT) working in concert to provide a flat(ish) transmission curve in the range 400nm to 700nm. This is to provide better colour rendition, more neutral white balance, and brightness. Tract even say there will be a peak around the green. Good moves :t:

It has nothing to do with field flattening elements which they don't have.

Chosun :gh:

And I was thinking "gloss", "semi-gloss", "satin", "eggshell", and "flat"!!!:eek!:

CG

chill6x6 · Mar 22, 2018

black crow said:
I took a look over at Amazon at the Nikon MHG and there were three reviews. All three seemed like knowledgeable reviewers who own or have owned several high end binoculars. They were not just one or two sentence reviews. All three gave these only 3 out of five stars for various reasons. I was surprised.
https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-MONARCH-10X42-Binocular-16028/dp/B01N249ENQ#customerReviews

I guess I can always DO an Amazon review. It would certainly receive a rating above a "3." I've never considered Amazon reviews a place to obtain a worthy review for the most part. I'd much rather have the opinion of some here on BF than any 200 Amazon reviewers.

I've owned quite a few binoculars where initially I would have rated them pretty low. But own them a while, use them, look at birds a while, compare them...ones opinion may change. It's happened to me. I've also owned some that I was elated with in the beginning only to realize the weren't what I thought they were. Time always tells.

I'm going birding in San Juan, St Thomas, and St Maarten next week. I've been going back and fourth about what binoculars( yes I said BINOCULARS!) to take. Pretty sure it's going to be the Monarch HG 8X42 and a Swarovski CL 8X30. The Monarch HG offers a super larger FOV, light weight, nice optics, and a super focus adjustment. I've had the MHG since it came out. I have no complaints at all with it.

I couldn't give it a "5" but I would like to rate it higher than a "4!"

black crow · Mar 22, 2018

People from BF do rate on Amazon. It's not that hard to tell a person with some optics knowledge from someone without any IMO. I've depended successfully on Amazon reviews on many things. I ignore 90% of the reviews but there are plenty from people who have skills. They do the reviews to help others choose between decent and ripoff. I review products on Amazon regularly and I think I do a fairly good job most of the time. I don't see why I should ignore them all just because it's Amazon.

ceasar · Mar 22, 2018

[email protected] said:
The first review is mine. I didn't care for the Nikon MHG's. I felt they had quite a bit of CA and the eye cups were too short for the eye relief for my eye sockets. The optics IMO felt strained and nervous. I didn't think the build quality was equal to LX series of past. I guess the other reviewers didn't like them too much either.

Dennis,

The Monarch HGs are Nikons 2nd line binoculars. They still are 2nd line binoculars even though Nikons EDGs have been discontinued.

The LX was the North American name for the old HG series which were Nikon's top of the line binoculars before the EDGs came out. All the LXs came in boxes that said HG on them as mine did. HG means High Grade.

The Monarch HG is a Monarch series binocular. It never was supposed to compete with the old HG series which is why its designation is Monarch HG. Nikon calls them "The most advanced MONARCH. Ever" on its website.

Anybody who has used the LX/HG series would be able to tell that they were better than the Monarch HG except for their old coatings.

The Monarch HGs should be compared with the Zeiss's 2nd line Conquests and the Leica's 2nd line Trinovids.

I read all 3 amazon reviews and 2 of the reviewers did not appear to know they were comparing the Monarch HG with alpha binoculars. The SF was mentioned as a comparison as was the Canon 10x42 IS and the Nikon Premiers were mentioned. The one whose Monarch HG had a diopter that drifted was comparing it to 2nd line binoculars.

Bobhttps://www.birdforum.net/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=3694292

dries1 · Mar 22, 2018

Chuck I agree with you, I have had an MHG 8X42 for a while now and it is a keeper, the eye-cups fit me fine with all the eye relief I need. It is a nice glass all around, like handling an 8X32.

A.W.

denco@comcast.n · Mar 22, 2018

The Nikon MHG's just didn't work well for me. A binocular is a personal thing. They are the most expensive binocular but for me Swarovski's work the best. I have the 8x56 SLC HD, New 8x30 CL and the 8x25 CL-P. I have a size for different uses. I think the big 8x56 SLC HD is the best overall binocular I have ever had despite it's weight and size. It has a super smooth focus unlike the 10x50 SV and just amazing optics with almost no CA, no veiling glare,it is really sharp on-axis with no optical aberrations and super low light performance. It is hard to describe the view. Just a very relaxed perfect image.

black crow · Mar 22, 2018

Sounds nice. I saw that in the Swarovski I owned. It was easy to look through, relaxed as you said. Nice bright optics edge to edge. I think now for me that relaxed feel is what I look for most. Since for me most optics are so close to each other I go for things like relaxed feel. I know to you this likely sounds silly but that's what I like so much about these very inexpensive Celestron Trailseekers. The optics are quite good enough for me and really just like my others including Zens and such (to my casual eye), but what makes them winners is how relaxed the view is with them. Easier to look through than many of my more expensive binoculars. I end up using them the most. At BHPhoto and Amazon they have a lot of reviews (96 at amazon) and get 5 solid stars. Someone else feels likewise.

dries1 · Mar 22, 2018

Dennis,
It looks like it has a FOV like an 8X42 glass, and it weighs 200+ grams more than the UV 10X50.

A.W.

chill6x6 · Mar 22, 2018

black crow said:
People from BF do rate on Amazon. It's not that hard to tell a person with some optics knowledge from someone without any IMO. I've depended successfully on Amazon reviews on many things. I ignore 90% of the reviews but there are plenty from people who have skills. They do the reviews to help others choose between decent and ripoff. I review products on Amazon regularly and I think I do a fairly good job most of the time. I don't see why I should ignore them all just because it's Amazon.

Nothing personal with the Amazon reviews BC. There are a few nice reviews.. But consider a Wingspan 8X32 gets a rating of about 4.5...a Zeiss Conquest HD 8X32 has a rating of 3. Which is the better binocular?

[email protected] said:
The Nikon MHG's just didn't work well for me. A binocular is a personal thing. They are the most expensive binocular but for me Swarovski's work the best. I have the 8x56 SLC HD, New 8x30 CL and the 8x25 CL-P. I have a size for different uses. I think the big 8x56 SLC HD is the best overall binocular I have ever had despite it's weight and size. It has a super smooth focus unlike the 10x50 SV and just amazing optics with almost no CA, no veiling glare,it is really sharp on-axis with no optical aberrations and super low light performance. It is hard to describe the view. Just a very relaxed perfect image.

I agree with the personal nature of binoculars. Lot's of nice choices out there too...

chill6x6 · Mar 22, 2018

BruceH said:
Tract Optics has announced the new 2nd generation of the Tract Toric 10X42. The name of this model is Toric 10X42 Schott HT.

Changes are:

- Schott HT glass for improved image quality and superior light transmission values, especially in the blue and violet spectrum.

- Flat Multicoating which enhances overall light transmission over a wider spectrum of light (from 400-700nm), especially in the green color range.

- Locking Diopter to eliminate inadvertent movement in the field.

https://www.tractoptics.com/products/binoculars/toric-10x42

Price is $694 and is available now. This compares to $664 for the 1st generation. The first generation is now on closeout for $564.

https://www.tractoptics.com/products/binoculars/toric-uhd-10x42-gen-1

The FOV, weight, and eye relief specs are unchanged. The body also appears the same.

No mention has been made of these changes coming to the Toric 8X42 model but I would not be surprised if that will happen eventually.

Sounds nice! CJ should approve of the Schott HT glass. Hopefully someone will be able to compare the two versions and report.

I meant to say thanks Bruce for the update earlier! Worthy improvements. The diopter adjustment DID move on me in the field so I like that. Pretty good value of the improvements for the amount of money although I though it was really a pretty good binocular to start with.

I'll be looking forward to the 8X42 model!

denco@comcast.n · Mar 22, 2018

chill6x6 said:
Nothing personal with the Amazon reviews BC. There are a few nice reviews.. But consider a Wingspan 8X32 gets a rating of about 4.5...a Zeiss Conquest HD 8X32 has a rating of 3. Which is the better binocular?

I agree with the personal nature of binoculars. Lot's of nice choices out there too...

I don't believe a lot of the binocular reviews on Amazon.com because you will see a really inexpensive binoculars like the Wingspan 8x32 getting high reviews. The reason is the people buying the Wingspan have never owned a Swarovski SV or Zeiss SF so they don't really know what good optics are all about. The Wingspan is the best binocular they have ever had so of course it is great in their eyes. The fact is they probably can't afford a $2K binocular or they don't really understand why anybody would spend that much on a binocular.

denco@comcast.n · Mar 22, 2018

It will be very interesting to see how these new Tract's perform with the new glass and coatings. If you want to upgrade though it will probably hurt the resale of your older Tract's but I guess that is the price of progress.

New Generation Tract Toric 10X42 Schott HT (1 Viewer)

Given to Fly

Experienced observer

missing the neotropics

Given to Fly

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Registered User

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Registered User

Registered User

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread