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Britain's Birds (1 Viewer)

I'm calling utter b*llsh*t on 60 - 150 mistakes. I have a copy of the book, and in terms of identifications I can't find more than the 5 steve listed (bear in mind this is from 3298 from 251+ photographers, so to some extent I would expect one or two). To be honest, my takeaway from this is a lowered opinion of some of the critics.
 
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Simon M said:
I'm calling utter b*llsh*t on 60 - 150 mistakes. I have a copy of the book, and in terms of identifications I can't find more than the 5 steve listed (bear in mind this is from 3298 from 251+ photographers, so to some extent I would expect one or two). To be honest, my takeaway from this is a lowered opinion of some of the critics.
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Hi Simon. I believe the higher figures include the map errors, and birds which have been incorrectly aged - e.g. the Mallard on the top left of p16, juvenile Marsh Harriers labelled as adult females on pp305-306 - and not just those where the caption lists the wrong species. Steve
 
andyadcock said:
I've been watchingt this thread develop and all I can say is, why is there not a wider pool of proof readers for such books?

Andy
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There seems to be little criticism of the text apart from an observation about the treatment of moult. Virtually all of the flak has been aimed at incorrectly ID'd photos. I suspect that "proofreading" thousands of images, and let's not forget that the number looked at must greatly exceed the number used, is a more difficult task than most imagine. I'd imagine that there were constraints, time issues, etc about which we know nothing. Perhaps with the deadline for the inclusion of species (March) and publication for the Bird Fair was too tight. One thing for sure is that the second edition will be worth getting .....
 
StevePreddy said:
Hi Simon. I believe the higher figures include the map errors, and birds which have been incorrectly aged - e.g. the Mallard on the top left of p16, juvenile Marsh Harriers labelled as adult females on pp305-306 - and not just those where the caption lists the wrong species. Steve
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To be honest, if the upper figure includes the maps I'm somewhat surprised that it's not higher!
 
Have amended my copy of the book with the 5 'wrong' species photos listed above. I'm now a lot less disappointed than I thought I was, now that the 150 errors turns out not to be true. I can live with those 5, and the map errors (got the 07-11 atlas and the 2 BTO recent fieldguides for those). Any wrongly aged birds again I can live with - as I'm usually only concerned that I have the correct species ID. So, all in all, I'm back to being very happy with the book, but am looking forward to the 2nd edition too.
 
Stonefaction said:
So, all in all, I'm back to being very happy with the book, but am looking forward to the 2nd edition too.
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I don't know if I agree with the logic, but the overall sentiment is about right. A number of people, include some who get free review copies, have enthused. A number of people have since been less complimentary because there are some mistakes.

In essence at the price it isn't realistic to expect perfection, on the other hand getting Ringed Plovers and Little Ringed Plovers right is where a guide like this earns its spurs...

Stephen
 
I've got plenty of UK fieldguides so am not too fussed about the Ringed Plover error (can already ID those out and about most of the time). It is the 'just in case' convenience of having every species seen in Britain and Ireland in one place that is the biggest plus for me. I will use it as a starting point if I do ever find anything rare enough that I'm unsure of the ID, then refer to wider sources.
Hopefully the second edition when it comes will add to what we already have, and correct the errors, until then the book as is will do what I want/need it to do. Hopefully that explains my logic a bit better.
 
I'd agree the maps are rather poor and generalised, but I'm not sure you can really include them as 'mistakes'. Almost any migrant species frequently occurs 'out of range', so at what frequency of records should an area count as part of a species migratory occurrence? What about when occasional pairs turn up and breed? Species like Montagu's Harrier and Quail have entirely different British Breeding ranges from year to year!
Basically, when it comes to maps, there is always a degree of subjectivity, unless you're dealing with a standardised methodology like the BTO Atlas (although I'd conceed the authors really ought to have had a better look at that first).
Without wanting to seem like I have some bias for this particular guide, I would point out one thing I absolutely love about it is the subtle, balanced use of photoshop. Compare these images to the nauseating visual noise of the Crossley guides and this wins out every time.
 
I completely agree Simon the Crossley guide is the only guide I've not purchased on purpose because a) I just know I wouldn't use it and b) the photos are very badly put together and could have been done so much better. I really don't like the layout of it at all. Whereas this guide will be the first I will go to if I need to identify something and will take second place even to my Collins as I've just never properly got on well with the Collins (illustrations are stunning) but the text is very technically minded and hard-going (for me personally).
 
Simon M said:
I'd agree the maps are rather poor and generalised, but I'm not sure you can really include them as 'mistakes'. Almost any migrant species frequently occurs 'out of range', so at what frequency of records should an area count as part of a species migratory occurrence? What about when occasional pairs turn up and breed? Species like Montagu's Harrier and Quail have entirely different British Breeding ranges from year to year!
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If, as is the case, areas with well-established breeding populations of species (present in some cases for decades) are omitted then I'm not sure what to call it other than a 'mistake'! It's always difficult to represent the "density/regularity" of occurrence on maps but it can be done and done well as the recent BTO field guide (otherwise an inferior book) demonstrated (and on smaller maps too). It's always difficult to show distribution precisely on small maps and one of my criticisms of the book, which is otherwise superbly designed, is that the maps could actually have been significantly larger (as much as 50% which would make them a lot clearer) without sacrificing significant space.
 
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John Cantelo said:
If, as is the case, areas with well-established breeding populations of species (present in some cases for decades) are omitted then I'm not sure what to call it other than a 'mistake'! It's always difficult to represent the "density/regularity" of occurrence on maps but it can be done and done well as the recent BTO field guide (otherwise an inferior book) demonstrated (and on smaller maps too). It's always difficult to show distribution precisely on small maps and one of my criticisms of the book, which is otherwise superbly designed, is that the maps could actually have been significantly larger (as much as 50% which would make them a lot clearer) without sacrificing significant space.
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Agreed, there have been populations of Marsh Harrier and Bearded Tit in Scotland for a long time but if you went by the maps in this book you wouldn't know that.

David
 
Despite some negative press here, I'm informed by my regular book supplier that it's been their best ever seller at Birdfair, easily outstripping their sales of Collins and other top titles.


Andy
 
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andyadcock said:
Despite some negative press here, I'm informed by my regular book supplier that it's been their best ever seller at Birdfair, easily outstripping their sales of Collins and other top titles.


Andy
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It appeared in the Amazon best sellers list too and, after a kick up the backside, even Waterstones started to stock it. The good news is that this will make the likelihood of a corrected edition and a European guide not only more likely but also more likely to appear sooner rather than later.
 
John Cantelo said:
It appeared in the Amazon best sellers list too and, after a kick up the backside, even Waterstones started to stock it. The good news is that this will make the likelihood of a corrected edition and a European guide not only more likely but also more likely to appear sooner rather than later.
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I think I'll hold off for the corrected version. Being a traditionalist when it comes to books, I'm not a big fan of photo guides no matter how good.

Andy
 
andyadcock said:
... when it comes to books, I'm not a big fan of photo guides no matter how good.

Andy
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Me too, but whilst I still find well-illustrated plates by a first-rate artist aesthetically far more pleasing, in functional terms I think this book (when corrected) matches any guide out there.
 
I finally looked at the "inside" of the book as offered by Amazon. And I find this a very attractive book with lots of fine comparisons. So despite my original intention that I could easily do without this book, I now see things differently. So just waiting for a corrected printing. :-O:-O
 
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