I, for one, simply realized that I can't any longer keep a 10x model sufficiently steady for a reasonable time. I had intended getting a 10x version. But the wider FOV can by itself be a decisive argument as well.
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Open letter to Zeiss - 8x30 Victory Companion please (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mpeace
- Start date
I, for one, simply realized that I can't any longer keep a 10x model sufficiently steady for a reasonable time. I had intended getting a 10x version. But the wider FOV can by itself be a decisive argument as well.
Its a good question and for over 20 years I only used 10x then changed to 8.5x then to 8x and this is my favourite magnification for most circumstances although I use 10x sometimes.
Why?
One reason has been mentioned already: it is easier to hold 8x steady and don't forget that bino tremors can be caused by deteriorating muscular control in older ages, arm fatigue, exertion to reach the place of observation and wind.
8x has greater depth of field so flying birds do not fly out of focus so often.
Binos are also used for searching for birds not just studying their details and 8x usually has a wider field of view and also a more extensive 'front to rear' field of view due to the greater depth of field. These two factors not only allow an 8x to scan a bigger area but also make it easier to acquire a view of a fast-flying close bird.
Lee
tenex
reality-based
This thread has got me wondering: who led the shift from 30/40mm to 32/42mm binos, presumably in the early 1990s? As a 10x fan I do appreciate 10x32 over 30, but at 8x, 30mm seems quite nice. Apparently 8x30 wasn't entirely killed off but there are no alphas anymore (not sure the Swaro CL counts). It would be nice to have more choices.
My guess is that it has something to do with the size and design of the eye pieces which can have an affect on their eye relief.
The eye pieces of 8x32mm and 8x42mm binoculars are larger than the eye pieces on their respective 8x30mm and 8x40mm binoculars and often have longer ER because of it.
We have recently been introduced to the unique and verasatile eye piece with an "optical box" which Swarovski has designed for their new CL Companion 8x30B which makes eye placement easier.
Bob
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Yeah - best just let the Swarovski 8×30 Companion steal the sales from all of them instead
:t:Chosun :gh:
If I were in the market for an 8X30 I wouldn't need more than two of the choices that are all ready on the market, the Nikon Monarch 7 8X30 OR the Swarovski 8X30 CL B. If price and compactness were of primary concern I'd pick the Monarch 7. If superior quality and optics were of primary concern and/or the binocular would at times be my primary binocular I'd pick the Swarovski. 396ft field of view for the CL B is nothing to sneeze at as it's right between a Leica UVHD+ 8X42(389ft) and a Swarovski SLC 8X42(408ft).
Chuck
I have to say this made me smile, but in a good way.
On the one side I understand what you mean about there already being two perfectly competent 30mm binos to choose from.
And you neatly avoid the 30 vs 32 question by writing 32 out at the very beginning by starting with 'if I were in the market for an 8x30'.
On the other hand, to find Chuck championing the notion that we don't need more choice in the availability of bino models when Chuck has the most formidable choice of binos known to man on his shelves already, is definitely worth a smile. Or two.
Lee
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tenex
reality-based
I only sneeze because I expect 30/32mm binos to have wider FOVs than 42s. (I presume that's because manufacturers aren't struggling so to keep them small?)
HEHE.... The 30mm vs 32mm debate could go on ad infinitum. The reason to purchase a 30mm is kinda lost on me. I know why I bought two 30mms and even a 28mm and that was for it's smaller stature. Now I know better. Well they ARE smaller than a 32mm, a little. APPRECIABLY smaller is the question. For me the answer is no they really aren't. One might THINK they are, that is until they try a folding design 25mm. Night and day difference. I still use my two 30mms but no longer nearly as much since I have an 8X25. Of course I have absolutely nothing AGAINST a 30mm binocular. But if I'm going to carry a binocular on a harness I'll just go ahead and make mine a 32mm or even a 42mm when given a choice.
Well yeah I have a binocular or two. Not to worry though....I'm the same with motorcycles, rifles, spotting scopes, on and on. I always like having as close to the PERFECT tool for the job as possible at hand. The quest to FIND that perfect tool is a lot of fun for me. Even while most of you are asleep I'm on my front porch looking at Jupiter with the new FL 10X56! I bet you know someone with a very similar likeness!
You would think. Not even Nikon deigned their Monarch HG 8X30 with more FOV than the 8X42.
wdc
Well-known member
One good reason to have some smaller bins around is to loan them to your friends when you take them out birding! 8x30 and 8x32 are both good sizes for that. A few of those in the luggage won't take up much room. Agreed that an 8x25 folding pocket is, in practice, much more portable.
I use the folding pocket for long hikes with a pack on, and while I'm painting. It really does fit in my shirt pocket. The 8x30 is great for lunchtime birding, as well as a travel bin. 8x32, a better travel bin for more serious birding. 8 and 10x42 are still my preferred extended birding bins. Mainly the 10 these days.
-Bill
I use the folding pocket for long hikes with a pack on, and while I'm painting. It really does fit in my shirt pocket. The 8x30 is great for lunchtime birding, as well as a travel bin. 8x32, a better travel bin for more serious birding. 8 and 10x42 are still my preferred extended birding bins. Mainly the 10 these days.
-Bill
rollingthunder
Well-known member
I still carry my Ziess West 8x30’s around town and local jaunts or if i go out to a pub and want something more compact and discreet for those ‘just in case’ moments...
I bought them 30 years ago for £150 second-hand for my then wife - i retained them after the split. Some things last a lot longer than marriage:-O:t:
Laurie -
I bought them 30 years ago for £150 second-hand for my then wife - i retained them after the split. Some things last a lot longer than marriage:-O:t:
Laurie -
If Zeiss did this, I think it would be more competitive with the Swarovski CL Companion 8x30 B than with a smaller pocket binocular.
I notice that Allbinos doesn't distinguish among 8x33, 8x32 and 8x30 binoculars in their ratings. Allbinos has been rating and ranking a number of 8x30 binoculars against 8x32 and 8x33 binoculars for some time now. They have arbitrarily, it seems, put (currently) 33 of them into the 8x32 category.
In regard to the Swarovski CL Companion 8x30 B; Allbinos has ranked it in 4th place among the 33 8x33, 8x32, and 8x30 binoculars. (a total of10 of these 33 binoculars are 8x30.)
https://www.allbinos.com/allbinos_ranking-binoculars_ranking-8x32.html
Bob
wdc
Well-known member
As much as I enjoy perusing allbinos, the ranking system for that lumped together class of binos, it is not only incomplete, but rather out of date. 8 out of the top 10 in the ranking are no longer in production, AFAIK.
I own the 8x30b and the EL 8x32, and simply the ease of use makes the 8x32 the better bin for me, even though I use the 8x30 a fair amount. I think the wider field, more eye relief, and larger exit pupil all make a contribution to that subjective sense of ease.
To rank the 8x30b above the 8x32 EL doesn't match my experience, though they are both good.
And Bob, I agree that if Zeiss kept the folding pocket concept, but upped the objectives to 30, they might have a unique product in that class of compact bins.
-Bill
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pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Size differences between 8x30, 8x32, and 8x33 are all over the place, really. I think it's better to consider them by weight, physical size, and merits. The Swaro CL has an ok field of view and poor close focus but is very light weight and very high quality. In comparison the Monarch HG has a great FOV and close focus but is not as sharp. It is also light weight. Something like the Swaro EL or the Zeiss FL are far better bins but they weigh a lot more and cost roughly double. The Opticron Traveller 8x32 is basically the same bin as the Monarch 7 8x30 and the Kite 8x30, just with 32mm objectives wedged in the end. Thus it is similarly light weight and has very similar specs. I tried a pair but found them optically inferior to the Monarch 7 8x30.
Ignoring physical size, here are the manufacturers given weights of some of the discussed bins:
Monarch HG - 450g
Swaro CL-B - 490g
Zeiss FL - 550g
Swaro EL - 595g
Kowa Genesis - 590g
Monarch HG 8x42 - 660g
Zeiss SF 8x42 - 780g
Swaro EL 8.5x42 - 790g
I personally would compare the Zeiss FL 8x32 and Swaro EL 8x32 more to the Monarch HG 8x42 on weight (and size actually) than to the Monarch 7 or HG 8x30 or the Swaro CL-B. Assuming a 32mm Zeiss SF comes along, I don't think I'm going to compare it to the HG or CL 8x30, I expect it to be a much better bin than either, but larger and heavier.
Everyone's point of "light enough to not matter any more" or "small enough to not matter anymore" also varies. For some people any 32mm is light enough. For some a 42mm is just fine all day. For some the Victory 8x25 is still too large for their pockets and is disqualified.
Back to the original question - if Zeiss came up with an 8x30 that was spec'd similarly to the Monarch HG but optically superior, I think it would be a fantastic bin and I would swap out my HG. I don't expect them to do so, but I would love it.
Ignoring physical size, here are the manufacturers given weights of some of the discussed bins:
Monarch HG - 450g
Swaro CL-B - 490g
Zeiss FL - 550g
Swaro EL - 595g
Kowa Genesis - 590g
Monarch HG 8x42 - 660g
Zeiss SF 8x42 - 780g
Swaro EL 8.5x42 - 790g
I personally would compare the Zeiss FL 8x32 and Swaro EL 8x32 more to the Monarch HG 8x42 on weight (and size actually) than to the Monarch 7 or HG 8x30 or the Swaro CL-B. Assuming a 32mm Zeiss SF comes along, I don't think I'm going to compare it to the HG or CL 8x30, I expect it to be a much better bin than either, but larger and heavier.
Everyone's point of "light enough to not matter any more" or "small enough to not matter anymore" also varies. For some people any 32mm is light enough. For some a 42mm is just fine all day. For some the Victory 8x25 is still too large for their pockets and is disqualified.
Back to the original question - if Zeiss came up with an 8x30 that was spec'd similarly to the Monarch HG but optically superior, I think it would be a fantastic bin and I would swap out my HG. I don't expect them to do so, but I would love it.
The design of the oculars to be used in the 8x30 would be critical to its success, I think. Wide field with shorter ER; or normal FOV with longer eye relief?
I'm guessing that ultimately, whatever is done, it won't be cheap if it going to be good.
Bob
Lee,
8x32 are now the mainstay centerpiece of any bino line, and Zeiss are going to have to figure out a way to get a solid product out there. Or they could just upgrade the Conquest model, as it already has the advantage of exceptionally solid mechanics and a good established reputation.
There is also a secondary issue in that if an 8x32 is going to be the main Zeiss alpha then it needs to be made in Germany, which is not going to be feasible at a too reasonable pricepoint. Or else Zeiss ends up being a company which outsources almost all its top product range, a situation which is perilious in highttech as the engineers become superflous and once they are fired there is no way to inhouse production, and also subcontractors always end up competing with the main brand.
Edmund
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There are certainly places in the world where 32mm have increased in popularity but in global terms 42mm is still the main product by a long way.
There will be more news concerning where and how Zeiss is producing its binos in an upcoming interview with their head of operations, so keep an eye on the interviews forums!
I would certainly agree with upgrading the Conquest HD 32mm which is a favourite of mine.
Lee
