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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Digital camera advice needed, please (1 Viewer)

C

catkin2909

New member
Hi all,
I am a new member to this forum; followed the link from a sightings page.
I do most of my wildlife watching around Moor Green Lakes in Berkshire.
My camera is an old Canon A1 35mm SLR but I have a telephoto lens and, with the x2 converter, I can get some decent shots but I would like to do more and I would like to go digital. I have looked at the tech specs for the Canon EOS, Nikon and Olympus but can't decide. Before I spend shed loads of money can someone please tell me what they use in the field and how they find it.
Thanks
Christine :stuck:
 
If you have good quality Canon lenses, I would have stayed with Canon.
I'm a Nikon guy for many years, so I'm not fully objective. You did not mention the telephoto lens you are using and which focal length you are looking for.
The stabilized zoom lenses up to 400mm of both Canon and Nikon are optical gems (Canon 100-400 IS, Nikon 80-400 VR). Both are costing beyond 1000 USD, is this the budget you were thinking of? You got to add of course a DSLR.
I see no real advantage for using the Olympus 4/3 system DSLR.
 
catkin2909 said:
Hi all,
I am a new member to this forum; followed the link from a sightings page.
I do most of my wildlife watching around Moor Green Lakes in Berkshire.
My camera is an old Canon A1 35mm SLR but I have a telephoto lens and, with the x2 converter, I can get some decent shots but I would like to do more and I would like to go digital. I have looked at the tech specs for the Canon EOS, Nikon and Olympus but can't decide. Before I spend shed loads of money can someone please tell me what they use in the field and how they find it.
Thanks
Christine :stuck:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the Canon FD lenses which fit on the Canon A1 will not fit on any Canon EOS camera, film or digital. This is a pity, I also have an A1 and a drawerful of FD lenses. There is no adaptor available FD/EOS which is any good. I have a Japanese one,however, the image is so badly degraded as to be useless. Having has several EOS film cameras since 1989, I finally succumbed to a Canon 350D 8.2 megapixel, last summer. This is Canon's cheapest digital SLR but in my opinion is the best value for money. The so called kit lens which is often packaged with it, 18-55mm lens is a real cheapy, I bought the 17mm-85 mm lens which is better. Unfortunately the 24-105mm lens was not available at that time, this is the best of the lot for general shooting. When it comes to taking birds I cannot afford Canon long focus lenses, so use a Sigma 170-500mm lens, it has quite a following, as does the Tamron 200-500mm. My longest Canon lens is the 70-200mm f4 L lens, which with a 1.4 converter takes it up to 280mm, as the Canon 350D uses a smaller sensor than full frame 35mm, the 1.6 factor extends this to 448mm. At 500mm the Sigma lens is equivalent to 800mm.
 
The old canon lenses for the Canon A1 won't work on DSLR - the A1 is an old design - way before autofocus! I still have one, but i switched to Nikon - merely because the D70 felt so much better in my hands than the equivalent Canon DSLR. Difference in quality really isn't that much - if anything.
 
This is something that can be said in favor of Nikon. 35 years old lenses perfectly fit my DSLRs and with the D2X and D200 I'm even getting accurate metering (but manual focus of course).
What's left to find out is what is the planned budget.
 
Just go into a shop and ask for a feel of the Nikon D70/50 and then the Canon 300D/350D.

Then buy the Nikon cuz it feels right ;) Seriously - I had no preconceptions when I went to buy my DSLR, and it came down to a straight fight between the D70 and the 300D. The Nikon did just *feel* that much better in the hands, and spec wise (unless you are going into astronomy as I was) there is nothing in it.
 
Thank-you so much to everyone who responded to my plea, it was so very helpful. In my research I had found out that my current lenses would not fit a new digital, which was why I was concerned about the cost. My current telephoto lens is a 70-200 with macro feature (and I don't want to lose that facility!!). It seems as though a 500 lens would do me but now all that remains is choosing the camera. From the responses I am getting it seems to be a direct choice between the Nikon 50D and the Canon 350D. If I had it already I could send photos of the Buzzards I spotted today.
Thanks again
 
Hi Christine and welcome to BF.

The problem with a question such as this is that you will basically get lots of people recommending the camera that they use. The best bet is to get to a shop and try the cameras for yourself.

Both the 350D and the D50 are capable of producing very good results, though this is far more dependant on the lens than the camera. It's worth considering the whole package - camera, lenses, accessories, etc. as you're not just buying a camera, but buying into a system. I went for Canon, one of the things that swayed me was that a friend who I go birding with was already using Canon, so now we can use eachothers lenses.

One think that is often stated as a plus point for the Canon's is there performance at high ISO's. I have a 350D and have managed to get some decent shots even at ISO1600, which is very handy in those long winter months. If you do go for a Canon don't discard the kit lens, I'd agree that it's not as good as other Canon lenses, but it does offer a very cheap wide(ish) angle option.

Opps... I meant to suggest looking at this thread from a while ago, I think some of it might be useful - http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=43684
 
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catkin2909 said:
Thank-you so much to everyone who responded to my plea, it was so very helpful. In my research I had found out that my current lenses would not fit a new digital, which was why I was concerned about the cost. My current telephoto lens is a 70-200 with macro feature (and I don't want to lose that facility!!). It seems as though a 500 lens would do me but now all that remains is choosing the camera. From the responses I am getting it seems to be a direct choice between the Nikon 50D and the Canon 350D. If I had it already I could send photos of the Buzzards I spotted today.
Thanks again
Click to expand...

The 350D produces better images in my view. But by all means check them out etc etc
 
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Kite said:
The 350D produces better images. But by all means check them out etc etc
Click to expand...

Obviously a Canon user! As stated in other replies - go for the one you like the feel of. There really is nothing between them, qualitywise. As for the Canon being better at higher ISOs - well - it's marginal. I often use my Nikon at 800 and sometimes 1600. Yes, the images do go a bit grainy, but i suspect that's due to the way the Canon sensor works and how it "smooths" out the image. This is easy to sort out with software afterwards anyway - which, i believe, is when it should be done.

Oops, i'm falling into the trap myself, of pushing the Camera i own! Seriously - it doesn't matter which route you take. Personally, if more lenses were available, i'd buy Olympus!
 
Kite said:
The 350D produces better images.
Click to expand...

Well, really the photographer is the component which most influences the end result: I've seen horror stories out of the 350D and heart stoppers out of the D50...

That said, I suspect that Canons are easier cameras to get consistently decent results out of, if only because of how they cope in high ISO situations.

I actually respectfully disagree with rezMole about how best to manage image noise.

Nikon uses in-camera software to reduce perceived noise, and frankly I don't think their software does a very good job (the D50 is by far the best of the bunch in that regard, whereas the D200 absolutely stinks). From a Nikon user perspective I'd agree with rez - I can do a better job than the camera.

Canon's approach is in effect hardware-based, involving in-chip noise cancellation - the sensor itself contains a noise cancelling circuit which double-samples the image and uses dark frame subtraction to remove noise before the sensor signal hits any software.

That's a much better way to get rid of noise without the "expense" of losing detail in the process, I reckon.

Even so, I can point at any number of abysmal pictures out of the 350D!

;)
 
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rezMole said:
Obviously a Canon user! As stated in other replies - go for the one you like the feel of. There really is nothing between them, qualitywise. As for the Canon being better at higher ISOs - well - it's marginal. I often use my Nikon at 800 and sometimes 1600. Yes, the images do go a bit grainy, but i suspect that's due to the way the Canon sensor works and how it "smooths" out the image. This is easy to sort out with software afterwards anyway - which, i believe, is when it should be done.

Oops, i'm falling into the trap myself, of pushing the Camera i own! Seriously - it doesn't matter which route you take. Personally, if more lenses were available, i'd buy Olympus!
Click to expand...

Surely rezMole is only correct about sorting out the image afterwards with software.if you are shooting RAW, if using JPEG any tweeking will degrade the image, however small.
 
baillieswells said:
Surely rezMole is only correct about sorting out the image afterwards with software.if you are shooting RAW, if using JPEG any tweeking will degrade the image, however small.
Click to expand...


Don't agree with this. For web use and printing up to A4 I use photoshop and neatimage on JPEG and produce what I consider to be perfectly acceptable image's. Pixelpeeping may well be a different story, but what the heck, I've got a middle grade camera and a cheapish zoom.

I'm not claiming that like for like RAW would not produce a better image but Jpeg isn't that bad, especially for newcomers to this game.

I've attached an image taken last weekend. Its Jpeg large at iso800 and has been through neatimage for noise reduction and elements 4 for levels adjustment and sharpening, and to me looks OK. It looks even better as the mounted print on my wall!

Paul
 

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From a noise angle with the D70, and much more appropriate to astronomy, there is a work around to the Nikon auto noise reduction thingie, BUT it is only really of any use for long exposures above 1 second.

Neat Image is good, but not perfect - it tends to over smooth in some instances, but you canb download profiles for most cameras now and I have a full set of D70 profiles (inc RAW) which do make the job easier and neater..

If high ISO noise is the ONLY issue, go Canon. If user features, ease of use, handling and battery life are relevant, go Nikon. Can't really comment on lenses as I use Tamron anyway (28-300mm f6.3 XR Ultra Zoom - great lens).
 
g8ina said:
Can't really comment on lenses .
Click to expand...

Almost any Canon or Nikon DSLR will give good results but what it is all about is the Lens, especially for bird shots. If you start with a standard type of mid range zoom such as a cheap 75-300, I guarantee that after a while you will be looking for a better/longer lens. It was for this reason alone that I decided to go Canon as there seems to be a wider choice of lens available. A word of warning if you do go Canon, once you try a 'L' lens you will be hooked for life.
 
baillieswells said:
Surely rezMole is only correct about sorting out the image afterwards with software.if you are shooting RAW, if using JPEG any tweeking will degrade the image, however small.
Click to expand...

If you're shooting jpeg straight from the camera, the camera is doing exactly the same conversion to the original RAW image that the photographer would otherwise do to the image if shooting RAW and converting it in post processing.

There is a small theoretical loss in saving jpegs, but if you do all your processing in one go - with a single save at the end of the workflow - then the degradation will be imperceptible.
 
Keith Reeder said:
Even so, I can point at any number of abysmal pictures out of the 350D!

;)
Click to expand...

And I can point out any number of abysmal pictures out of the D50/D70 ;)

Absolutely, you can point out abysmal images with any camera, even the pro bodies, the user is indeed important.
 
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rezMole said:
Obviously a Canon user! As stated in other replies - go for the one you like the feel of. There really is nothing between them, qualitywise. As for the Canon being better at higher ISOs - well - it's marginal.
Click to expand...

..... in your opinion, this seems to be a subjective issue.
It's been pretty obvious from what I've seen, but clearly this view differs from person to person. I am a Canon user, but don't own the 350D. The D70 is not a bad camera - in fact it's great, and better than the Canon's in some respects, but from what I've experienced, the image quality of the Canon 8MP 350D is quite significantly better than the 6MP D70/D50, this is (as Keith correctly points out) assuming the user of either camera doesn't mess up the settings etc.
 
g8ina said:
If high ISO noise is the ONLY issue, go Canon. If user features, ease of use, handling and battery life are relevant, go Nikon. Can't really comment on lenses as I use Tamron anyway (28-300mm f6.3 XR Ultra Zoom - great lens).
Click to expand...

I find the Canon cameras very easy to use and handle and I've never had a problem with battery life, so this isn't as clear cut as saying "go Canon" or "go Nikon" either.
 
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