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An inexpensive 6x30?

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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 03:56   #26
black crow
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I don't usually have an issue with bluntness or being straightforward. That's all Bill was doing to his credit and all I was doing to mine. Heated debate or discussion can be very good as long as it stays about the ideas and not about the persons having the ideas. I don't think Bill crossed any lines and I'm glad to know how he feels about the things I post here. I'm not going to do anything different though. It's just me being me.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 05:00   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC View Post
BC:

I didn't say that at all!!!!! I must say, though, you're mighty quick at drawing wrong conclusions. My concern was that it's difficult to impossible to help you, as I'm sure we all want to do, when you're all over the board with your knowledge. Sometimes when I say too much, you say you don't understand. If I say too little, you go away not having a thorough answer. Can't you see? Or perhaps I should just bow out of trying to help at all.

Bill
I've been helped. Maybe not as much as you think I should be but that's not my business. This isn't all about you and me. I usually post to the general audience and I'm not waiting on your answers specifically. If I don't understand your explanation I say so and someone else may be able to say it in a way I can understand which IMO is the skill a good teacher and communicator has. The truth is that others have been able to explain things so I can understand them better than you have. That's just how it goes. This began when I disagreed with a quote you posted and supposedly agreed with. I did not. At that point I was on topic as it pertained to the OP. I think inexpensive optics can be good optics and I've been saying that from about my first thread when I returned to BF. It's not something I just came up with.

So yeah if you feel that way bow out and leave me out of your posting. It's better for both of us and everyone else because you seem to be the only one with the problem as to how I post to this point. And that's OK by me. I don't blame ya. Some people bug me too.

The only thing I'm really sorry about is that this thread has gone so far off topic but IMO it can't be helped at this point. I've asked you to take it to PM but it looks like you've expanded your earlier posts instead.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 07:42   #28
Gijs van Ginkel
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black crow, post 27,
"posting to the general audience"means that you throw it in the air and we sit down and do not have to do anything with it? But BF is not the general audience so you can expect somebody to respond to your posts. And I think that Bill was civilised and to the point in his reaction to your post.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 08:53   #29
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Quote:
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If others here agree with Bill that I'm being a general nuisance or my posts are inappropriate this is a good time to chime in since it's out here on the table. My ears are open.
BC

Bird Forum is for people of all levels of interest, knowledge and abilities to mix together and share experiences and opinions.

Your posts are always interesting and engaging. Stay with us

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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 09:05   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC View Post
BC:

I didn't say that at all!!!!! I must say, though, you're mighty quick at drawing wrong conclusions. My concern was that it's difficult to impossible to help you, as I'm sure we all want to do, when you're all over the board with your knowledge. Sometimes when I say too much, you say you don't understand. If I say too little, you go away not having a thorough answer. Can't you see? Or perhaps I should just bow out of trying to help at all.

Bill
Bill
This me as moderator speaking.

BF is not the place to undertake an analysis of a member's ability to formulate questions and understand the answers. This is personal. BF house rules are clear that we must not get personal. It leads to misunderstandings due to the fact that on here we can't hear tone of voice or see facial expressions or body language so we can't readily tell what is meant in a friendly way or is just downright critical.

Move on gentlemen.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 09:16   #31
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lee, i get you very well but want to add a little i have expanded in bc's thread about why he is here
i dont see anything Bill has said as out of line and i often have the same perceptions bc has!
i believe bill goes out of his way to help. i think then he states further why he does that and is honest
i dont see why he is singled out frankly.
but moderation is the way it is handled as drawing a line so i accept
neither bc or bill want problems, neither is wrong in my perception
something goes wrong but it isnt the people involved themselves or even what thry say
something diverges from acceptable norms, i feel it too but have no idea after rereading what it is.
i hope it settles.

i see the quote you moderate from in your post, i just see a guy trying even harder to care and explain.
i am thus wrong too? is caring too 'personal'.

Last edited by jape : Thursday 5th April 2018 at 09:18.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 11:24   #32
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Yes, I'm moving on now for sure. If I have something more to say I'll say it in PM.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 15:18   #33
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Has someone derailed my thread? LOL
by inexpensive I mean 250 or under. ideally roofs.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 16:16   #34
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Guilty as charged.

Do they have to be 6x30 or could they also be 6x32? That might broaden the selection a bit. Too bad Eagle optics is kaput. They had a great one for about $269 called the Ranger. They closed them out and I got one for $169 and it's one of my favorite pair.
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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 19:46   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc View Post
Looking for a quality but not very expensive 6x30? Something that's easy to carry everywhere and not a huge loss if stolen from the car.
Leupold Yosemite 6x30 is "waterproof" and sells for just under $100


https://www.leupold.com/binoculars/bx-1-yosemite-6x30mm

edit: Ooops...the Yosemites were mentioned previously.

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Old Thursday 5th April 2018, 19:57   #36
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Has someone derailed my thread? LOL
by inexpensive I mean 250 or under. ideally roofs.
IDK if you missed it or not.... That Vortex Viper HD 6X32 on the classified should be pretty sweet. Prob MIJ. It's a $500 binocular.
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Old Saturday 7th April 2018, 17:38   #37
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Found an excellent porro 6x30, wide FOV, light weight, pleasant handling comfort, the only disadvantage may the indivual focussing. Price brand new: 20 euros. I do not know were it is made: brand name is Libra, comes with a very simple case and no straps. Looks water proof, but I did not perform an immersion test yet.
Further testing will be done.
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Old Sunday 8th April 2018, 20:30   #38
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Those Vortex Viper HDs are now down to $260 including shipping. That's a screaming deal for a made in Japan bino with a locking diopter and a lifetime no fault warranty. I know there is a poster on this site who said they've had bad luck with Vortex warranty service but it doesn't sound like they've even called them. Everyone I know myself included who has had a warranty issue and received excellent prompt service. They were selling for $500 new and are no longer being made so harder to find. They also get excellent reviews on this site and others. If I wanted a 6X I would jump on that deal because you'll be hard pressed to find anything that good. I bet he'll even take $250 for them BTW I don't know the seller but if you don't take advantage of that deal it's hard for me to believe you're that serious about buying at this time.
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 14:25   #39
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The Libra 6x30 I described in post 27 is also sold by a large camera store in Holland: Kamera Express and it costs there 29,99 euro's.
I am now test-using it with a Zeiss raincap (the only one that accomodates the necessary distance between the binocular lugs, looks kind of strange: a super cheap binocular equipped with a top brand raincover....like transporting potatoes in a violin case).
To be continued.
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 15:41   #40
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Hi Gijs,
The Libra 6x30 may be the same as the Dowling and Rowe 4x22 but with longer objective barrels.
I paid more than double the 6x30 price for the 4x22, but I use it whenever I need a very wide field.

A Dutch site says it has a 17 degree field, but I measure it between 16.3 and 16.5 degrees.

The coatings are not great, but there are few 4x binoculars available.

I suppose that the 6x30, if it is 6 times, may have an 11 degree field.
But I probably would prefer the 5x25 Foton, 6x24 Russian or the 6x24 Amplivid all with 12 degree fields.
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 15:58   #41
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Re. post 40.

The 4x22 may have only 2 blue coated surfaces, all the others uncoated. A pity, but that is how it is.
The box is marked 4x22WA
Greatest FOV 300M/1000M (17*)
Bak4 prism
Coated optics
CN Patent No.: ZL 01 2 21466.3

Chinese?

The photos on the box seem to indicate that the binocular may come from the same source as the various Bushnell Xtrawides.

My 4x22 is independent eyepiece focus. There was also a fixed focus variant.

The box says CHECKED. May be this means the box has been checked and not the binocular (:

Superview.

WARNING
Please do not look at the sun directly. otherwise it will hurt your eyes.

Actually the eye doesn't have pain receptors, but it would damage ones eyes.
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 16:04   #42
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The 6x30 Libra is ridiculously cheap if well collimated and a good sample, but the 4x22 makes more sense.

Looking again it seems that the 6x30 is indeed a longer barrel version of the 4x22.

If the 6x30 is individual focus or fixed focus it may not suit birdwatchers.
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 16:08   #43
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Libra is a constellation.
Also weighing scales.
And maybe justice?

Also the forerunner of the pound.
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 17:28   #44
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Binastro,
I think that you are right that the Libra is similar to the Dowling and Row and it is indeed a 4x22 body with longer barrels, so my curiosity grows, since such a quality for an incredible low price, how can that be possible??
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Old Monday 9th April 2018, 22:34   #45
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Like numerous Chinese binoculars, the fault is cheapness, brought about by customers who want something for nothing, or are only prepared to pay the cheapest price possible.

So what happens.
There are minimal coatings. In fact no coatings except on the two outer surfaces.
If every lens surface was single coated there would be a good improvement, plus perhaps quality control. This would lead to a 50% price increase. Would the punter pay? No. For something that looks identical to the cheap version.

Then coatings on the prisms, perhaps all surfaces multicoated, and quality control. Price double. Would the punter pay? No. For something externally identical to the cheap version.

This applies to numerous Chinese binoculars, some of which could be quite good.

It only seems to be Nikon, Opticron maybe, and Optical Vision who are prepared to sell cheap, medium and good quality binoculars.

This same punter driven cheapness is why the very successful multi billion dollar companies thrive, despite often having very questionable goods and standards.
Plus completely Alice in Wonderland advertising.

So we have to make do with what is available.

How many people would know if a binocular has almost no coatings or is fully multicoated and has quality control? Perhaps 5%, probably less.

The 6x30 at 20 euros probably leaves the factory gate for a few euros, the cost of a cup of coffee in a coffee bar, or a beer at a pub.

This doesn't apply only to binoculars, it applies to everything.

I just bought a secondhand camera with the charger lead missing. I got one for 59 pence, but I am fearful of using it as it is cheap Chinese. The same make extension socket lead caught fire, luckily while I watched.
So I will use a spare lead of a good brand from another camera.

It seems figure of 8 and C7 leads may be the same?
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Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 16:27   #46
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Gijs,
Does the 6x30 Libra have only the two outer surfaces single coated?

I would be interested to know the transmission.

Is the field about 11 degrees?

If I was able to buy them at 20 euros I would buy several.
If any were out of alignment I would want to cut them in half and have 6x30 monoculars for 10 euros.
One of these should make a nice upright finder for a telescope. These usually cost a lot more than 10 euros.

The 4x22 doesn't have much eye relief, so the 6x30 may not give the full field wearing glasses.
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Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 16:53   #47
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Binastro, post 46,
I will answer your questions as fast as I can, but at the moment some other jobs keep me busy, so wait with patience, it will come.
By the way, if you want to buy some: they can be ordered from Kamera Express in the Netherlands for 29,99 euros.
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Old Friday 13th April 2018, 18:36   #48
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Has someone derailed my thread? LOL
by inexpensive I mean 250 or under. ideally roofs.
to tell the truth....250 give or take is about top end for most 6x30 bins....you would be hard pressed to find a modern pair selling for above 300....

Last edited by gunut : Friday 13th April 2018 at 18:39.
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Old Friday 13th April 2018, 19:47   #49
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Maven maybe?
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Old Saturday 28th April 2018, 11:51   #50
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I found some details about the Libra here : http://www.hioptic.com/english/outdo...binoculars.htm
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