Eye relief, eye cups and 'Hovering Optics Technique' (1 Viewer)

Some time back, when there was discussion a-plenty about the Nikon M7 8x30, glare, flare and other things, i experimented a lot with them. I tried those flared eye shields for a while to see what they did, and then started trying out different eye cup settings. Obviously, there was a degree of vignetting, until i screwed them right down and started 'hovering' them in front of my eyes.
This took some time, but i suddenly found a 'sweet spot' - the view opened right up, they were bright, clear and seemingly untroubled by any unpleasantness at all. I was convinced i could also see the play of distortions used to create such a wide view in such a small, economic set.

Within a trip or two, this became instinctive - i'd go to exactly the right position, and developed the knack of moving head and arms simultaneously to keep everything in position.

Recently, i started using this technique with my principal binocular, the Zeiss FL 8x32. Even with these, i'd never really settled on where the eyecups were best set - sometimes i'd use them fully extended, and sometimes one stop below this. In bad stray light situations, i'd extend fully, and jam my eyes into the cups, but normally, it would be one stop down from there and the 'eyebrow' technique.
I've now adapted the Hovering Optic Technique to these, so it too is instinctive, and today, (while waiting for a particularly shy Little Stint to appear), did some elementary tests with the FoV.
So, with a small island with two rocks on it on the left, and the edge of bird hide opposite the water on the left, i compared all available eye cup settings and their varying techniques.

To cut a long story short, the widest, (apparently) brightest FoV was available with the eyecups down and the H.O.T.
It is a little difficult for me to measure how far further out from the fully-extended setting i am holding them; it may be that i am actually in that vicinity, but without the visible eye cup interfering.
Strangely, when i tried this with an 8x42, it was far more difficult, but this may be more to do with balance, weight, size than anything else.

I started thinking about this following discussions on BF re published eye relief, and whether eye cups actually married up with this figure. As someone who simply assumed it was 'glasses = eyecups down, no glasses = eyecups up' this has all been very revealing.
The technique is now second-nature to me, with no awkward moments, and no birds missed. It also seems a lot more relaxed looking into the bins rather than through them and i seem to be able to look for longer periods.
In terms of the science fo what is happening, i will remain silent; i can't imagine why - after years of using smaller bins - this has only become apparent recently. It is almost like the eyecups provide a field stop which i no longer have to be restricted by.
It would be interesting to know if anyone else has kind-of ignored the eyecup/eye-relief thing, or finds any different results in any similar tests.

The salesman at Sportsman's Warehouse showed me how to put the eye cups all the way down and then either hover or use the eyebrow technique to get the full FOV. It does give you the biggest FOV almost to the field stops. For me it is not as comfortable as having the eye cups set at one distance because you have to adjust your eyes to the right distance every time you use your binoculars. It is one way to deal with too short eye cups though.

The problem for me with this method of viewing is that the binocular is just not steady.
It is only when I have firm contact with the eyecups that I see a steady image.

That is why I am unhappy with many modern binoculars with too short eyecups.

Indeed - i think the technique would be different for everyone. In my case (and as i always wear the same cap for birding) it seems that 'index finger touching edge of peak' gives me exactly the right distance.
It definitely works best with 32mm and below sizes and with the elbows almost vertically below the hands.
On another thread here, it was mentioned that this is actually a photographic technique for filming moving objects.

I'm willing to deal with the eyebrow technique or partial hovering with my Leica 8x20's which weigh only 3 oz and are so tiny I really can fit them in a normal pocket. But I do not see a reason to constantly fight binoculars when I can find one that allow the eye cups to fully rest around my orbits and let me relax in viewing.

marcsantacurz said:

I'm willing to deal with the eyebrow technique or partial hovering with my Leica 8x20's which weigh only 3 oz and are so tiny I really can fit them in a normal pocket. But I do not see a reason to constantly fight binoculars when I can find one that allow the eye cups to fully rest around my orbits and let me relax in viewing.

Click to expand...

I agree with your thoughts, well explained.

Hovering is not a solution for enjoyment of binoculars.

Jerry

There's no 'constant fight' about it, and if anything, it's increased the enjoyment of them. If it's not for you, it's not for you....

One thing that hovering would enable is letting in stray side light. This is a large factor
in the best view.

I suppose we are all different, but I like to jam the eyecups into my eye sockets, to seal the
light and steady the view, I find I get the best view that way.

With pocket types, that is not always possible, mainly because of the smaller than normal diameter eyecup, the
eye relief is fine, but size is the limitation.

Jerry

NDhunter said:

One thing that hovering would enable is letting in stray side light. This is a large factor
in the best view.

I suppose we are all different, but I like to jam the eyecups into my eye sockets, to seal the
light and steady the view, I find I get the best view that way.

With pocket types, that is not always possible, mainly because of the smaller than normal diameter eyecup, the
eye relief is fine, but size is the limitation.

Jerry

Click to expand...

Yeah, in some light conditions i'll extend the cups and jam them, using the eyecup as a shield more than a 'spacer'. It has been a surprise how few times this happens though. I haven't done a winter using this with the FLs yet (although did with the M7) and will be interested to see how it works with low, slanting winter sun....
The other surprising thing, i think, is that there are 4 eye cup positions with the FLs, and there seems to be a technique which will work to make any of them usable.
Paddy

Why hover when you can extend the eyecups to the right position? I assume yours have several click stops?

Or have I misunderstood?

Paddy7

I happened upon the same technique--hovering the eyes over the ocular lenses with the eyecups down--earlier this year when seeking further means to tame the Opticron 8x32 SR.GA*. The technique worked extremely well for me. You could say that it released the full potential of the beast. Before that the view through the Opticron was satisfactory, but the outer section of the specified 8.25 degree field of view was not well resolved.

Apropos Binastro's post, I don't find it harder to steady the binocular when hovering the eyes over the ocular lenses. I also earlier this year went over to Ken Colville's 'thumbs up' grip. That could be the reason why. The grip suits the Opticron.

It goes without saying that I don't use spectacles when using the Opticron. For persons not familiar with the binocular, the eye relief is miniscule.


Stephen


* It was in fact a technique that I was already using for another binocular. I was obliged, perforce, to adopt the technique in order to get the full field of view of the Minolta MK Standard 7x35 11 degree Extra Wide

Nicely put - reveals the full potential of the view. Eyecups all the way up is fine, but this just seems better, and very relaxed.
I noticed several of my sea-watching compadres doing this with scopes too. Easy enough when static and seated.

It's difficult for me to talk about the grip, the stance etc. as i suspect any who do it will find whatever suits with their optics. It takes a bit of experimentation and time, but as i said earlier, i just hit it every time now and it has become very instinctive (just as any other method of using optics is when you start out).
I'll just reiterate that - in my case - this works for me with 32mm bins and smaller.

i'm glad it works for you too!

pshute said:

Why hover when you can extend the eyecups to the right position? I assume yours have several click stops?

Or have I misunderstood?

Click to expand...

Personally, I have found many times that having the eyecups as low as possible (or maybe one up from there) opens up the view so much in many binoculars, that it makes viewing a relaxed pleasure, and not a chore looking through more of a tunnel view often if you have them extended. I do not wear glasses while viewing, but it holds true even if you do, depending on the eye relief available on various models. I find different ways of holding them to bring this effect about, according to the binocular I am using at the time. I prefer having them resting on my brows, rather than jamming them into my eye sockets (as others have said they prefer), which tend to hurt my sensitive skin and membranes there-maybe my sinuses. In strong sidelight, I find I prefer to have a wide brimmed hat to fold down and block the harsh light anyway. Though with some binoculars, you need to place them in the eye sockets-though jamming them in there is mostly optional, I believe.

Sometimes there are no click stops to adjust-just fully extended, or fully closed, or in the case of folding rubber eyecups-fully opened or fully folded. What you see from them in various positions is up to your particular viewing situation-glasses or not, and eyesight parameters, along with what binoculars you are using at the time. Only you can make it right for your viewing pleasure-not anyone else, but there are options to make it right for you in many situations, though some binoculars will be much better choices than others for you. And it is assumed that if you have abundant eye relief for your needs, then you have more options on how you may hold them for the best performance and viewing pleasure than those whose eye relief is very limited, and you have to adjust and hold them as necessary.

Holding off from your face is also possible, but it takes practice and experimentation to do it consitently and well to find what works for you, with various bins.

So it's not just me then!
The last point is important - that if you want to make it work, it takes a bit of practice, patience and repetition before the correct position (for that particular binocular) is found accurately. When i was first trying it, i took myself off 'birding duties' for one short walk, and just concentrated on this, so i had it in about 1-2 hours; a small price for the view i've been having since.
Paddy