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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (2 Viewers)

Globetrotter, post 2540 (wow what a number),
Did you ever try to dismanle a cheap (Chinese if you want) and a top-class expensive binocular and look at the quality of the different parts? You could be amazed.
Gijs
 
james holdsworth said:
The question is, is this good enough, or do we deserve more, given the prices?

Bins are not cars, there are not thousands of moving parts nor are they pushed to extremes so the design process is simplified. Asking for a $3000 binocular to be sharp isn't asking too much is it? How hard is it for Z/S/L to have a ''hands-on'' QA process for each unit, given that the number produced is low?
Click to expand...

I fully agree. Some level of quality control should always be performed but at these price tags I find nothing else than a very careful quality control of each unit acceptable. "Lemons" should not be acceptable for high quality brand manufacturers, in my opinion.
 
kestrel1 said:
It will be nice, if the Zeiss will send to SF buyers x42 HTs or
at least Conquest HDs...
It will make good reputation to Zeiss, as a first step to catch up SW in terms
of customer care...
Click to expand...

You mean to buyers who pre-ordered the SFs? What if they ended up liking the HTs or Conquest HDs? Then they'd cancel their SF order and ask Zeiss to refund them the difference, and in the case of the HDs, they could use their refund for a birding trip to Belize.

I think they should send them Terra EDs for free. This way they can keep them and Zeiss doesn't have to sell the returned HTs and HDs as demos or refurbs. The HTs and SFs are priced too close together. Amazon is selling the HTs for $2,250 and the SFs are selling for $2,500. Why buy an HT when you can get an SF for $250 more????

I think HT sales might slump if Zeiss doesn't do what Swaro did when their SLC-HDs and SV ELs were too closely priced, drop the HT's price by $250-$300. However, I'm sure those who paid full price for their HTs will be pissed. :C

<B>
 
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GLOBETROTTER said:
I don't care about Globetrotters [increasingly] suspicious motive [why on earth did you need to buy such an expensive binocular if you were not satisfied with it!?!] but I do care that Zeiss seems to consider quality of build and design secondary to pushing sales. I'm not giving Zeiss a pass on this as I think any Zeiss bin. should be as well designed and optically equal or better than any other binocular available. I would hope Zeiss feel the same way!

James holdsworth.


Suspicious !!!!!! what a shame to hear this from you..............i am just an optics enthusiast who already have Several Zeiss collector models, I want Zeiss to be at the top again and produce the best of the best with innovation and top quality.

I would like to feel top class optics as i feel it with my oberkockens 10x50 designed almost 50 years ago, or my 10x40 BGAT.

I hear thinks like ´ now everything is cristal clear ´ what that its mean ? that i am here to destroy Zeiss reputation ?

Affinity or loyalty is what i have......because already owning an 8x ultravid model i went back to Zeiss again for a chance even if one year ago i already exchange a defective unit of HT for my ultravid.

Some people is asking why to keep it if you are not happy go for another brand, i already have another brand so easy, if difficult to understand ?????????????????????????????

I really believe the Zeiss propaganda that this model was designed and build as a truly masterpiece and its quality is so hight that you can keep it forever.........

Now i discover the spikes on bright stars and nobody believe me until kimmo REPORT THE SAME....................HALOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!

Also i report that the rubber armor start to be loose close to the central hinge, well now start to be loose close to the strap hold close to the eyecups......i will post some pictures.

New in forum not stupid...........even if i am from Spain, the land of siesta, sangria etc etc
Click to expand...

James's post was dripping with irony, in fact, some dripped off the screen and onto my keyboard and instantly froze (it's 4*F right now), because what he is accusing you of is the same thing that he has complained others have accused him of! Namely, that you are a loyal Zeiss fan like James rather than fanatically blinded like some others, and you want to make sure that Zeiss gets it right and lives up to its word-class reputation. I think you are both have the same goal but don't realize it.

I won't try and reconcile the two of you, that's Lee's job. ;)

<B>
 
I am absolutely sure that we all agree that we want Zeiss to live up to it's heritage and produce bins of exceptional quality, delivered to the market in a timely fashion.

Lee
 
brocknroller said:
James's post was dripping with irony, in fact, some dripped off the screen and onto my keyboard and instantly froze (it's 4*F right now), because what he is accusing you of is the same thing that he has complained others have accused him of! Namely, that you are a loyal Zeiss fan like James rather than fanatically blinded like some others, and you want to make sure that Zeiss gets it right and lives up to its word-class reputation. I think you are both have the same goal but don't realize it.

I won't try and reconcile the two of you, that's Lee's job. ;)

<B>
Click to expand...


My problem with Globetrotter is the idea that he checked 7 samples of the SF,s, never found a perfect sample but still bought one. Why?

Most people would move on to something else after finding such poor quality.

That is all.....
 
james holdsworth said:
My problem with Globetrotter is the idea that he checked 7 samples of the SF,s, never found a perfect sample but still bought one. Why?

Most people would move on to something else after finding such poor quality...
Click to expand...

Well, we're all different, aren't we? I don't find that behavior odd or suspicious at all. An optics enthusiast, interested in the latest ostensible super-bin can see from its specs that it is a bin worth checking out. Once in the hand, some deficiencies (i.e. aspects of performance that do not match one's expectations) can reliably be attributed to design, but for other weak points it is not immediately obvious whether they are more to do with the design or the individual unit or even a whole production run (common in photographic equipment, e.g. recent recall of some serial number Nikon D750 dSLRs). If a design has a lot to love about it, it can be worth trying many units to see if some are made better than others to the extent that they do not even exhibit the deficiency (because the deficiency is not an inherent limitation of the design).

As I noted before, I had to try three of the original Swarovski 8.5x42 EL before I found one with proper left-right focus synchrony. The defective units were so impressive in other ways that I was determined to find one withoutthat flaw, and I did (working perfectly to this day). The first several B&L 8x42 Elite (waterproof version) units that I tried had very poor contrast, but B&L tweaked the design (new version distinguishable by design of the objective lens retaining ring) and so later units had all the good aspects of that bin without that disappointing flaw. And I can't tell you how many Bushnell Nature View porros and Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD bins I've gone through to find the cherries in order to help a friend get a bin with awesome performance at a very low price.

--AP
 
brocknroller said:
You mean to buyers who pre-ordered the SFs? What if they ended up liking the HTs or Conquest HDs? Then they'd cancel their SF order and ask Zeiss to refund them the difference, and in the case of the HDs, they could use their refund for a birding trip to Belize.

I think they should send them Terra EDs for free. This way they can keep them and Zeiss doesn't have to sell the returned HTs and HDs as demos or refurbs. The HTs and SFs are priced too close together. Amazon is selling the HTs for $2,250 and the SFs are selling for $2,500. Why buy an HT when you can get an SF for $250 more????

I think HT sales might slump if Zeiss doesn't do what Swaro did when their SLC-HDs and SV ELs were too closely priced, drop the HT's price by $250-$300. However, I'm sure those who paid full price for their HTs will be pissed. :C

<B>
Click to expand...

That shows on the books as a 100% loss, are you sure you are a business writer?
 
james holdsworth said:
My problem with Globetrotter is the idea that he checked 7 samples of the SF,s, never found a perfect sample but still bought one. Why?

Most people would move on to something else after finding such poor quality.

That is all.....
Click to expand...

Maybe because you don't read properly my posts isn't it ?

Last time that i will explain this, other colleagues here on BF already know..........because they follow that i say.

My actual sample arrive directly from importer to my local seller, once at home was checked and it was fine. DAYTIME.

After certain time i found an issue looking the stars, spikes etc etc Kimmo notice the same.

Some days ago I report that my SF rubber armor was not properly glued close to central hinge.

Later on i was move to Latvia, and then KOSOVO, and SF comes with me.......Work reasons.

I don't know if you already know how is life here......but for sure this is not the place to exchange any kind of product.

So Is clear now ? did you catch the idea that my actual SF mainly fails during night time something impossible to check at store when you are buying a bin ?

I hope so.........;)
 
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We seem to have introduced in recent posts an argument that when Zeiss makes a top of the line binocular it should be judged on how it performs as an Astronomy binocular even though it is aimed at the Birding or Hunting market.

I don't agree that this is necessary or fair. People who are interested in birding or hunting may have more money to spend on their pursuits than amateur astronomers but they shouldn't have to subsidize the quest for optical perfection that binocular astronomers pursue. When I say that I do not mean that sloppy manufacturing practices should be overlooked in order to save costs. Never the less there always comes a time when practical business sense has to trump perfection and return to the original goal of improving the binocular for its most popular uses.

Bob
 
ceasar said:
We seem to have introduced in recent posts an argument that when Zeiss makes a top of the line binocular it should be judged on how it performs as an Astronomy binocular even though it is aimed at the Birding or Hunting market.

I don't agree that this is necessary or fair. People who are interested in birding or hunting may have more money to spend on their pursuits than amateur astronomers but they shouldn't have to subsidize the quest for optical perfection that binocular astronomers pursue. When I say that I do not mean that sloppy manufacturing practices should be overlooked in order to save costs. Never the less there always comes a time when practical business sense has to trump perfection and return to the original goal of improving the binocular for its most popular uses.

Bob
Click to expand...

Bob:

If you have any experience with high end optics, Zeiss optics have been
recognized to be at the very top, along with others in this price range.

Did you know that? ;)

I have read most all of the posts here criticizing Zeiss in the performance of
some of the latest optics, and it is not from astronomers, it is from Zeiss
purchasers or reviewers who are finding some things lacking with either design or quality control issues. These are things found out by comparing to
a previous Zeiss model or the competition.

If this is the new normal, then Zeiss has slipped backwards, upon the introduction of these new models.

Jerry
 
perterra said:
That shows on the books as a 100% loss, are you sure you are a business writer?
Click to expand...

Given the probable markup on the SFs, I doubt if would be 10% loss! Different in the case of Nikon where it replaced customer's EDG Is with EDG IIs. Heck, Nikon even threw in a free $500 DSLR with their steeply discounted EDG Is. You can't put a price on goodwill. Are you sure you are a salesman?

<B>
 
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brocknroller said:
Given the probable markup on the SFs, I doubt if would be 10% loss! Different in the case of Nikon where it replaced customer's EDG Is with EDG IIs. Heck, Nikon even threw in a free $500 DSLR with their steeply discounted EDG Is. You can't put a price on goodwill. Are you sure you are a salesman?

<B>
Click to expand...

Trust me, you can put a price on good will. That it's priceless is a rumor that someone who doesnt work on commission spreads around. Goodwill is worth about 20 cents on a dollar. Thats the reason brick and mortar stores are going away.

How much do you think the markup is for Zeiss?

How much is the dealer marking it up?

Whats the true cost on a Terra, how many Terras would you have to sell to make up for the ones given away?

A 100% loss hits the bottom line pretty hard.
 
NDhunter said:
Bob:

If you have any experience with high end optics, Zeiss optics have been
recognized to be at the very top, along with others in this price range.

Did you know that? ;)

I have read most all of the posts here criticizing Zeiss in the performance of
some of the latest optics, and it is not from astronomers, it is from Zeiss
purchasers or reviewers who are finding some things lacking with either design or quality control issues. These are things found out by comparing to
a previous Zeiss model or the competition.

If this is the new normal, then Zeiss has slipped backwards, upon the introduction of these new models.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry,

Did you read my post?;)

Bob
 
ceasar said:
james holdsworth said:
Particularly if the problems are not noticeable to most users..... I would still bet that the average user wouldn't notice much difference between them.
Click to expand...

Thats in general the one criteria that separates BF (and any other forum on technical stuff) from the world at large. Much as its good to have a very critical audience, shopping-reality is something else.

Of SF and its early-production-problems, as with nearly everything else, it pays not to buy too early. With binos, we have the advantage of a certain type to be produced for quite a long time, compared with other consumer goods whose first generation is also the last and final.

So lets see how the SFs will perform right out of the box in a years time. Thanks to early adopters|:D|;), any glitches should be solved.
Click to expand...
 
brocknroller said:
Given the probable markup on the SFs, I doubt if would be 10% loss! Different in the case of Nikon where it replaced customer's EDG Is with EDG IIs. Heck, Nikon even threw in a free $500 DSLR with their steeply discounted EDG Is. You can't put a price on goodwill. Are you sure you are a salesman?

<B>
Click to expand...

And there is suddenly Nikon in a Zeiss matter, but in this case there is a back firing truth in it.
Nikon is a professional company and offered a professional solution. An EDG for an EDG and when the customer is not happy we throw a camera in it to.

Brocks "professional" solution is to give a chinbin to the SF buyer to keep the customer satisfied.
This is like buying the most expensive and luxuary car from a brand and get the cheapest/most low budget model to drive in because of the delay.
Well Brock, this doesn't work in the real world.
If an SF customer wanted a chinbin he would have bought it.

So an HT would be in place. A top model for as long as the other top model is on its way. The Swarovski solution.
One problem rises here for Zeiss and that is the matter of production facilities. It can't be done. There is no space for a full throttle HT and SF production line both in labor and product.
Swarovski did not had this dilemma because they decided in a early stage to built a complete new productionline for the SV and reserved a years time to get that done while the EL line was intact.

Both Zeiss and Swarovski have taken different paths to reach their goal and believe me, these decisions are marketing nightmares.
I'm 100% certain that the waitinglist for the SF will be gone in this summer,
and minor problems like the armoring not beeing well glued etc are solved.

Concerning the "spikes", I've heard/seen same reports on the SV 42, so no news for me on this front.

Jan
 
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