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What Counts as a Tick on your Lists? (1 Viewer)

AlanR

AlanR

Bird photographer
United Kingdom
I know that there is no official answer, and this may be a difficult question, but what exactly determines when a sighting is enough for a tick?
For example, if you spot a bird as some distance and feel confident from the general shape and activity, is that enough - or do you have to see enough of it to be sure of the species? Does a kestrel-like bird hovering low count as a Kestrel even if you don't check it out through binoculars and see its markings clearly?
If there is any doubt, I presume we have to assume its the most common bird.
Also, from what I have seen in other postings, some people will allocate a tick to a bird which has been heard but not seen. Does this really count? (Obviously if you have seen it, the sound can be used as an identifying feature.)
It may also make sense to be stricter in allocating ticks to really new birds on the liefetime list. Annual (or monthly) lists are more statistics about the birds around than marks of personal achievement.
I am trying to stick to just those I can plainly identify from visual markings - even if this means that a large proportion of birds remain as unidentified. (I just hope the statistics will get better as I become more familiar!)
I would be interested to how others decide what makes a tick?
Alan
:stuck: :stuck: :stuck: :stuck:
 
This is a matter of personal choice. If I see a bird for the first time I have to be able to ID for myself or if I am put onto it I have to be comfortable that I have seen the clinching features. If the bird is not a lifer then I will tick it for a year list on call ie cuckoo, cettis warbler because you know what your going to get when you find it. I do not have Tawny Owl on my life list though I have heard them on numerous occasions. If I see an obvious Kestel hovering over the motorway then thats good enough for my year list.
 
If I can positively identify the bird by sight or sound then that's good enough for me, if I have any doubts at all as to the birds ID then I don't tick it.
Jackie
 
Hi,
I have to see the bird and convince myself it has been identified correctly, can be a bit time consuming, especially some of the smaller birds in China!

Cheers
Nick
 
If the bird is a life or new county / site tick I have to see the bird.

This applies to species like Quail and Flufftails so they will be off my list for some time unless I am very lucky!

I will always attempt to get pictures of birds I am unsure about (Gulls in particular are a headache for me!), then show it to experts to get their opinions.

Common species that I hear I will tick occassionally if I am certain there can be no doubt as to its ID (Time of year / Location etc).
Some birds do mimic others so ticking on call alone is not always 100% foolproof.

Owls I would not tick on call alone they are my favourite group. I would note the location and return to establish if it was a regular roost site for the bird (droppings, feathers etc) then check the location regularly for activity (From a safe distance as not to disturb the bird!).

Soaring Raptors I will only tick if I am certain I have covered they key ID points.
 
Unless i see and identify a bird myself it doesn't go on my life list.
A couple of examples:- I heard booming Bitterns at leighton moss regularly for nigh on
20 years but it didn't go on my life list untill a finally saw one a couple of years ago.
I went into a hide and some birders were looking at a white wagtail with some pieds they had obviously had a good look and were confident it was a white.Just as i got my bins focused it flew off never to be seen again.Whilst i saw it i couldn't identify it myself so it never went on my life list. Both were recorded in my notes but not added to my life list until i was sure that i had seen the bird.

Thinking about it this does throw up a few proplems, if someone with a powerfull scope can identify,say a winter plummage black necked grebe on the far side of a lake on a grey rainy day in november and you manage to pick it up in your bins or not so expensive scope,you know what it is because someone else with better equiptment and maybe more experience has told you but you can't make a possitive id for yourself.Does this count?
Mmmm i wonder.
 
I used to have what I called pencil ticks and ink ticks. A pencil tick was one that I was almost sure of but not 100%, an ink tick 100% definitely. I used to enjoy converting pencil ticks into ink ticks.
 
I use a similar system if there's any doubt at all it is recorded but not added to the list untill sure. Imagine how many times i wrote "heard Bittern" or the classic "you should've been here 5 minutes ago". Before i wrote "Seen Bittern" and added the tick.
 
This is a very interesting question.

For me, there is a difference between SIGHTINGS and IDs. If I'm in a wood and hear redstart or wood warbler or pied flycatcher, then I will add them to my year list, even if I don't actually see them. For me, there is no doubt as to their identity.

Ghostrider makes an important point. I don't think one should just accept another birder's ID at face value. People make mistakes, even with the best of intentions, so I would need to be confident that I had seen or heard the bird myself before I would add it to my list.

One more difficult area concerns wildfowl, and the old escapee question. Some birders seem overly cautious and sceptical when faced with an "exotic", while others are more than happy to mark the bird down as a genuine wild individual. Short of waiting for and abiding by the verdict from the official bodies, I don't know how to resolve this one.

In short, I know if I'm listening to a redstart, even if I can't see it. But I can enjoy cracking views of a blue winged teal, for example, but can I tick it?

Malcolm
 
It's all personal preference. I don't tick birds unless I see them. I may ID them by call then just see them as a blur. As long as it's the right shape and color blur. ;) If someone else IDs a bird for me, I don't tick it unless I see or hear is well enough to agree with the ID. I don't tick based on what something most likely is. I don't just assume that hawk on the telephone pole is a red-tail hawk, etc.
 
I agree 100% with Cillana. There is no point in ticking something unless you genuinely know what it was, from what you yourself have seen and heard of the bird. And never accept another birder's ID at face-value, no matter how authoritative they may seem.
 
For me, lifers must be seen, EXCEPT FOR owls, rails, and nightjars (and friends who take trips down south say that when I do too, I'll be adding wood-quails to that list!) but I have to really know what I'm hearing. Pretty much any other kind of ticks can be heard. I also keep a "satisfied view list" for birds - so if I see my first ever Surf Scoters far offshore, and I can tell what they are, but don't really get to study the bird (due to diving, distance, etc.), I go ahead and life tick it, but keep it off my satisfied views list (It goe without saying that I also keep my heard lifers off of my satisfied view list). My goal is, of course, to eventually see all my birds to my satisfaction.
 
ghostrider said:
Thinking about it this does throw up a few proplems, if someone with a powerfull scope can identify,say a winter plummage black necked grebe on the far side of a lake on a grey rainy day in november and you manage to pick it up in your bins or not so expensive scope,you know what it is because someone else with better equiptment and maybe more experience has told you but you can't make a possitive id for yourself.Does this count?
Mmmm i wonder.
Click to expand...

This situation should never arise of course. After you have allowed the person with the hot scope to view the grebe for a while, and they still haven't offered you a chance to look at it through their scope, even though you obviously really want to get a good look at it, you could politely ask them if you could have a look at the bird through their scope. If they refuse, you stab the miserable selfish ****, nick their scope, and obtain tickable views. Harsh perhaps, but what can you do ?
 
I sometimes count heard only birds when I'm certain of the ID which means mostly not in case of WSS (wrong song singing). I usually use it for birds I'd rather not disturb.

Here is two posers:

1. What if you photograph one bird only to notice a second lifer in the background when you get home. Counts or not?

2. I heard Bridled Tern whole on the phone to a buddy who was close to a colony. Can I count it?
 
Hench said:
I sometimes count heard only birds when I'm certain of the ID which means mostly not in case of WSS (wrong song singing). I usually use it for birds I'd rather not disturb.

Here is two posers:

1. What if you photograph one bird only to notice a second lifer in the background when you get home. Counts or not?

2. I heard Bridled Tern whole on the phone to a buddy who was close to a colony. Can I count it?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the responses. I am getting a better feel for the way I will approach my lists.
It certainly seems to make sense to be less strict for year-lists than for life lists.
I haven't got to the stage where I could possibly identify birds by sound only yet but I tend to think that I will only count visual sightings.
Another poser which has not come up so far is the situation where I am out with an expert birder who says "Look, there's a lesser spotted red-throated Eurasian warbler!", and I catch a fleeting glimpse of a little brown bird. I think I can only count this if I see enough to fit in with a description I can find in a book.
I am trying to photograph all my new birds but I will still count those I can't catch on camera.
[I still have a lot to learn. So far my life list is about 35 and my 2007 list is about 25!]
My views on the posers above:
1. I think I would count this if it's clear enough in the photograph. (I would probably have seen it in the viewfinder anyway.)
2. No way. This is in the same class as counting birds seen on television!
Alan
 
It is entirely up to you, it is your list.Personally I need to see the bird and I record it as a possible if I am not 100% certain. I only tick it if I am absolutely certain.
 
Took the words...

Last year I included "heard only" but this year, cuz there's more of it left than last (I started late), it's gotta be seen and positively ID'd.

I am going to have to be content with my back garden spots until our hols to Portugal come up again in April (and another Hoopoe :) )
 
ghostrider said:
Thinking about it this does throw up a few proplems, if someone with a powerfull scope can identify,say a winter plummage black necked grebe on the far side of a lake on a grey rainy day in november and you manage to pick it up in your bins or not so expensive scope,you know what it is because someone else with better equiptment and maybe more experience has told you but you can't make a possitive id for yourself.Does this count?
Mmmm i wonder.
Click to expand...

Or what if you're both using 8x binos, both looking at the same bird(s), and the much more experienced person says, "that's clearly a (long tailed duck/dovekie/razorbill)",...
and I can see the duck, and I know it's a duck, but the details aren't clear...
or I can see the small dot about 50ft from the shore, but 150yds away from me, and it's a little larger than half the size of the nearby red-necked grebe,...
or I can see the razorbill but would never have been able to ID it myself because it was a little too far away to pick up detail?

All of these happened to me (in the span of 5 minutes with the same expert birder!), but I didn't put any of them on my life list. The dovkie, especially, sticks in my craw, because it's difficult for me to think of any other alternative to what that bird might have been. It HAD to be a dovekie, and I knew it, but I didn't see anything other than a darkish blob...
 
I only add to life list if I'm certain of the ID (for this, I have to see the bird as I'm not competant on sound alone with most birds!). Also, I often ask for my ID to be checked - if I manage to get a photo - again because I don't always feel totally confident.

I have a small list of possibles that I don't "officially" count on my life list. This currently includes Twite and Long-eared owl. Also have a heard list (also not included in life list), which includes Cuckoo, Cetti's Warbler.
 
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