What binoculars do you think have the most WOW factor! (1 Viewer)

kabsetz · Nov 25, 2012

Gijs,

That was a pretty fabulous list of Wow-factor binoculars you had up there. Have you really looked through all of them? Anyway, it brought back to me memories of my very first binocular, the Russian 8x30 porro, a predecessor to the Tento. It did have the wow-factor, as my specimen was perfectly collimated and very sharp at the center. Unfortunately, brightness and contrast were not that stellar, and the color cast was very yellow. But, it served me well for several years.

The next wow-binocular that I owned was (though I still have it) at Zeiss Jena Jenoptem 10x50, which has such good center resolution that when my Nikon SE 10x42 arrived, it failed to wow me. Of course, the SE was and is better in most other respects, but the Jenoptem's superb resolution and wide FOV had spoiled me, and I could never become quite as enamored of the SE as I perhaps should have.

Other WOW factor binoculars for me:

- Canon 10x42 IS L - still the one I prefer for hand-held image quality and the one I happily come back to from all the superb binoculars I test.

- Canon 15x50 IS - showed me what IS can do and served me beautifully for many years.

- All the Swarovski SV:s I have tried. - If I would use binoculars with a tripod, one of these would be my choice. If I had the funds to own binoculars just for the pleasure of owning them, I would get an 8x32 SV for the odd times I would not want to take the 10x42 Canon out with me.

- 8x42 Swarovski SLC HD - just about as good as the SV:s. But since I don't suffer from the dreaded Rolling Brock effect (thanks, Gijs, for this new term), I prefer the SV:s that keep the corners clean.

And finally two from the olden days (for me) that were wow but would not necessarily be so anymore:
- Leica 8x32 Trinovid when it was new - amazing quality for its time for that size of binocular.
- Zeiss 15x60 CF T* - would have bought this but the price was out of my reach.

- Kimmo

Gijs van Ginkel · Nov 25, 2012

Kimmo,
Yes, I have looked through all of the binoculars I have listed. I also liked the Zeiss 15x60 a lot, but every time somebody offered it for sale to me, my purse refused to be opened.
Gijs

denco@comcast.n · Nov 25, 2012

kabsetz said:
Gijs,

That was a pretty fabulous list of Wow-factor binoculars you had up there. Have you really looked through all of them? Anyway, it brought back to me memories of my very first binocular, the Russian 8x30 porro, a predecessor to the Tento. It did have the wow-factor, as my specimen was perfectly collimated and very sharp at the center. Unfortunately, brightness and contrast were not that stellar, and the color cast was very yellow. But, it served me well for several years.

The next wow-binocular that I owned was (though I still have it) at Zeiss Jena Jenoptem 10x50, which has such good center resolution that when my Nikon SE 10x42 arrived, it failed to wow me. Of course, the SE was and is better in most other respects, but the Jenoptem's superb resolution and wide FOV had spoiled me, and I could never become quite as enamored of the SE as I perhaps should have.

Other WOW factor binoculars for me:

- Canon 10x42 IS L - still the one I prefer for hand-held image quality and the one I happily come back to from all the superb binoculars I test.

- Canon 15x50 IS - showed me what IS can do and served me beautifully for many years.

- All the Swarovski SV:s I have tried. - If I would use binoculars with a tripod, one of these would be my choice. If I had the funds to own binoculars just for the pleasure of owning them, I would get an 8x32 SV for the odd times I would not want to take the 10x42 Canon out with me.

- 8x42 Swarovski SLC HD - just about as good as the SV:s. But since I don't suffer from the dreaded Rolling Brock effect (thanks, Gijs, for this new term), I prefer the SV:s that keep the corners clean.

And finally two from the olden days (for me) that were wow but would not necessarily be so anymore:
- Leica 8x32 Trinovid when it was new - amazing quality for its time for that size of binocular.
- Zeiss 15x60 CF T* - would have bought this but the price was out of my reach.

- Kimmo

"Leica 8x32 Trinovid when it was new - amazing quality for its time for that size of binocular"

I have to disagree with this. I would change that to just amazing quality. I compared the Leica 8x32 BN's to my Nikon 8x32 EDG's and found the difference to be so small that I sold the EDG's keeping the BN's because I preferred their size and tough build quality. The BN's wowed me more than the EDG's. I would put them up there with any modern alpha roof and over any of them in design and build quality.

NDhunter · Nov 26, 2012

steve@37n84w said:
Gijs

The Habicht isn't that well known (especially here in US) and most people are unaware of just how great this binocular is as you were until you tested one. There of three of us who have the 8x30 Habicht over on the Cloudy Nights forum and the conspectus is that the Habicht is the sharpest binocular we own. I have some alpha roofs and many premium porros but the Habicht is the sharpest of current production binoculars I own. The only binocular that matches it for on axis resolution is an old Nikon J pat. 9x35 7.3*.

Steve

Steve:

Good to see you like the 8x30 Habicht, I like Swaros. also, and you have
some strong claims here on resolution testing.

What binoculars have you tested, and tell us about your methods and results?

A 9X binocular with good optics should better a similar 8X in resolution
testing.

I would be interested in these results.

Jerry

denco@comcast.n · Nov 26, 2012

steve@37n84w said:
Gijs

The Habicht isn't that well known (especially here in US) and most people are unaware of just how great this binocular is as you were until you tested one. There of three of us who have the 8x30 Habicht over on the Cloudy Nights forum and the conspectus is that the Habicht is the sharpest binocular we own. I have some alpha roofs and many premium porros but the Habicht is the sharpest of current production binoculars I own. The only binocular that matches it for on axis resolution is an old Nikon J pat. 9x35 7.3*.

Steve

If the Habicht is so good why does the 10x40 only make 25th place in the 10x40 Allbinos ranking.

http://www.allbinos.com/allbinos_ranking-binoculars_ranking-10x42.html

pompadour · Nov 26, 2012

kabsetz said:
... my very first binocular, the Russian 8x30 porro, a predecessor to the Tento. It did have the wow-factor, as my specimen was perfectly collimated and very sharp at the center. Unfortunately, brightness and contrast were not that stellar, and the color cast was very yellow. But, it served me well for several years ...

Kimmo, if it's possible to explain without much trouble, is it only the constant sharpness that "wowed" you there? And/or did you feel what Dennis says here:

[email protected] said:
Snap is a good word to describe it. It is almost like when you put the binoculars up to your eyes you flipped a switch and this electrifying image is presented to your eyes ...

Gijs, does Dennis's description (which personally I find really good) apply to all the bins in your list (requesting a reply on the above condition!) BTW, I too was wowed by the list! Have looked through only about half-a-dozen bins there. Two omissions that surprised me of famous and popular models are the Zeiss Jena 8x30 (in my memory the view and the instrument both like jewellery) and Zeiss Victory FL 8x32.

Gijs van Ginkel · Nov 26, 2012

Dennnis,
I do not know why Albinos put the Habicht 10x40 on position 25, you have to ask Albinos. I have not listed the Habicht 10x40 on my WOW list, but the Habicht 8x30..
Pompadour,
You are right the Zeiss Jena 8x30 porro must be on the WOW list, I had overlooked it and given the 6x30 Silvamar priority. I will come back on the Victory FL 8x32.
With colleagues I discussed the WOW list I have presented on this forum and we thought about other binoculars that also would fit on this list and came to the following instruments in addition to my previous list:
- 7x50 CF 41 Barr & Stroud Porro-2
- Beck Tordalk 11x80 porro
- Hartmann Compact 7x42 porro
- Hartmann Bernina 25x80 porro
- Leitz 15x60 with 45 angled eypieces
- Russian 7x30 porro
- Russian 7x40 porro, both very well made and of excellent optical quality
- Russian 8x30 porro wide angle (13 degrees!!!), fairly smal compact housing and very large wide angle eyepieces (fairly small prisms compared to the size of the eyepieces)
- Sard 6x42 wide angle 12 degrees porro
- Wollensak 6x30 porro
- Zeiss Jena 8x30 porro , very nice and well-built binocular (forgot to mention it in my previous list)
- Zeiss Jena 7x40 B/GA, very strong, waterproof, good optical quality, production continued by Docter Jena
- Zeiss 10x40 Dialyt roof, used with great satisfaction by many
- Zeiss 8x56 Night owl roof, heavy but very nice binocular
- Zeiss 20x60S with image stabilizer, expensive but nice optical quality and image stabilization works without batteries. Disadvantage is the vulnarability of the system.
- Zeiss Victory RF 8x45, beautiful optical quality
Pompadour: why not the 8x32 Victory FL? I hesitated to put it on my list, because when I make the choice which light-weigt binocular to take on backpacking tours or long distance walking I mostly leave it at home and I take the Leica Ultravid 8x32 HD or the 8x32 or 8x30 Swarovski, although the image of the Victory is bright, but the depth of focus seems to be rather shallow for my eyes so I have to adjust the focussing to frequently to feel comfortable. That is annoying when you are walking and you have to get your binocular very fast and you want the image to be immediately rocksteady for your eyes.
I hope to have answered all questions.
Gijs

steve@37n84w · Nov 27, 2012

[email protected] said:
If the Habicht is so good why does the 10x40 only make 25th place in the 10x40 Allbinos ranking.

http://www.allbinos.com/allbinos_ranking-binoculars_ranking-10x42.html

Dennis

Your citing the Allbinos review on the 10x40 Habicht has little relevance to the comments on the 8x30 Habicht, sort of reminds me of you claiming your 8x32 EDG was the best roof based on the Allbinos review of the 10x42 EDG.

I have no experience with the 10x40 Habicht only the 8x30. I was referring to the performance of the 8x30 as was Gijs and the posters on Cloudy Nights. There are lots of variations in a series of binoculars as most people know with the model with the lowest magnification (no surprise) often being the better performer.

I love Nikon binoculars and have the following 8x30 EII, 10x35 EII, 8x32 SE(x2), 10x42 SE, 12x50 SE, 7x50 IF SP, 10x70 IF WP, 18x70 IF WP. In each instance the best performer in each series is the model with the lower magnification.

The little 8x30 Habicht is sharper on axis than my 8x Nikons and my 8x alphas (Geovid and FL). This doesn't mean the Habicht is a better overall binocular (8x30 EII is still my favorite birding porro); however, the Habicht IS sharper on axis than my other 8x binos.

Steve

pompadour · Nov 27, 2012

Gijs, thanks. Re the "Russian" bins unless the make and model names are not clearly visible surely they deserve to be stated in your list, especially the make. If it's a matter of not being familiar with Russian letters then if you could post a photo/s maybe someone here could render the name/s for us in English letters?

Gijs van Ginkel · Nov 27, 2012

The choice of binoculars with exceptional WOW factor is of course a matter of taste and it is difficult to challenge taste. Knowing that I want to add three more binoculars to the WOW factor list:
- Lemaire 5,5x44 Holland glass 1910 (lenses only). Bought it an antique shop in Paris. Beautiful design, but like all theatre type glasses with small FOV. Optical performance comparable with the famous 08 binoculars from WW-1.
- Leica Duovid 8-12x42 roof. Beautiful design, good optical quality alhough not as good as the Leica Ultravid HD's , but it can be handy to have two magnifications combined in one binocular. Bit heavy.
- Leica Ultravid BL roof. Beautiful black design covered with black leather (I do not like the binoculars with chromium color finish, but others do, that is really a matter of taste). The optical quality is good although not as good as that of the Ultravid HD's. The design fits in the designs of the first Leitz Trinovids, really beautiful instruments to look at.

pompadour · Nov 27, 2012

Gijs, if your last is a response to mine just before it:

I mean the "Russian" bins already in your list! I'm suggesting the make (also model) deserves to be stated.

Gijs van Ginkel · Nov 27, 2012

Pompadour,
I am sorry, our messages obviously were sent almost at the same time, so I saw your question too late. My Russian is a bit rusty, but the 7x30 and 7x40 look to be made by BPO. The ultrawide angle Russian 8x30 Porro is the only one I did not see myself, it is from Dr. Hans Seegers book "Militärische Ferngläser und Fernrohre"and he did not give the name of the producer. There is, however, a picture of the binocular on page 212.It is from the collection of Lothar Funke (a binocular collector with quite a few exceptional binoculars). I have mentioned it, because we had in another topic an exchange about the factors that govern FOV and this instrument indicates clearly that the eyepieces are leading.
Gijs

denco@comcast.n · Nov 27, 2012

steve@37n84w said:
Dennis

Your citing the Allbinos review on the 10x40 Habicht has little relevance to the comments on the 8x30 Habicht, sort of reminds me of you claiming your 8x32 EDG was the best roof based on the Allbinos review of the 10x42 EDG.

I have no experience with the 10x40 Habicht only the 8x30. I was referring to the performance of the 8x30 as was Gijs and the posters on Cloudy Nights. There are lots of variations in a series of binoculars as most people know with the model with the lowest magnification (no surprise) often being the better performer.

I love Nikon binoculars and have the following 8x30 EII, 10x35 EII, 8x32 SE(x2), 10x42 SE, 12x50 SE, 7x50 IF SP, 10x70 IF WP, 18x70 IF WP. In each instance the best performer in each series is the model with the lower magnification.

The little 8x30 Habicht is sharper on axis than my 8x Nikons and my 8x alphas (Geovid and FL). This doesn't mean the Habicht is a better overall binocular (8x30 EII is still my favorite birding porro); however, the Habicht IS sharper on axis than my other 8x binos.

Steve

Interesting. I must try a Habicht sometime.
Dennis

jan van daalen · Nov 27, 2012

Yes the little Habicht 8x30W is phenomenal and sold in Holland for 850,00 euro. The price of the Nikon 8x30SE just came in and comes to 899,00. So the Swaro is waterproof, does have more lighttransmission and contrast and is cheaper. Because it is waterproof it's focussing mechanisme is more tight. I agree.
Jan

pompadour · Nov 28, 2012

Gijs, thanks. Sorry about that confusion. Googling for "BPO" brings up some very surprising info. about the sharpness (at the highest level) of one or more of its models. Must look up more on them - couldn't spend much time on that yet. Presently cannot even quite figure out if BPO is a make or a model range within a make, even a technical descripn. like "FL" in Zeiss!

Your reply about the Zeiss V. FL 8x32 seems to show that an essential factor in the "wow" experience for you is depth of field - maybe, like othre factors, relative to time of manufature, price, etc. (Helps towards answering my question, on what actually is the "wow" exprc. to most people, and the explanation for that, in turn, in terms of optics.)

etudiant · Nov 28, 2012

pompadour said:
Gijs, thanks. Sorry about that confusion. Googling for "BPO" brings up some very surprising info. about the sharpness (at the highest level) of one or more of its models. Must look up more on them - couldn't spend much time on that yet. Presently cannot even quite figure out if BPO is a make or a model range within a make, even a technical descripn. like "FL" in Zeiss!

According to Dr Seeger, the classic Russian 7x30 BPO is an IF glass with very excellent eye piece optics, giving superior visual performance. It is also spectacularly robust.
The manufacturer was/is KOMZ (Kazansky Optiko-Mekhanichesky Zavod), but I have no idea who owns that enterprise now.
Do note there were knockoffs of the original design created for the export market. These glasses are usually more cheaply made and imho of lower optical quality. They can be distinguished from the real thing by the eye piece rubber, just a roll down cushion like the old Zeiss 7x42BGA.
The originals have a retractable rubber sleeve, which can be extended by turning the eyepiece collar.

Click to expand...

brocknroller · Nov 28, 2012

Lowest price on an 8x32 SE is $679.95 on this side of the pond (B&H Photo), $728 at Amazon and Optics Planet. They were selling for $525-$550 two and a half years ago and that price had held steady for about 12 years in the US. This dollar/yen thing is pushing up prices.

The Habicht has always been around $899 here, same price as the 8x30 SLC, but the Habichts have always been much harder to find here than the SLCs and SEs even now that the SE's are "special order".

Did Gijs measure the light transmission of the Habicht and SE? Did he test the latest 8x32 SE (550xxx)? It appears brighter and has more contrast than my two previous samples, but I'm not sure if that translates to greater measured light transmission.

If the 8x30 Habicht out resolves the 8x32 SE by a full element, I'll eat my hat (Yankee's cap). "Sharper" is a murkier term, that's rather subjective and involves contrast, color saturation and CA control. But I mean if I go down to the Honey Creek Bill and Beak and Gordon and I test them both on a resolution chart while boosted 2.5x .

The ER is short on the Habicht. That's something they could improve but won't. I'm not a fan of tight focusers for birding bins, okay and even preferable for astro bins, and, of course, for hunting. However, close-in birding requires a more responsive focuser.

As long as it's not overly stiff and turns with the same resistance in both directions, it might be useable. As far as the ER, if I can see the entire FOV w/out having to dig my eyes deep into the eyecups, that would also be fine, I don't wear glasses with birding bins.

Ergonomically, the EII is more like the Habicht. So I will compare those too.

The real question is if the Habicht's focuser gets stiffer in cold weather like the Nikon porros'. One of the main purposes for buying a WP/FP bin for me would be to use in winter when the cold stiffens the focusers on my non-WP porros. I suspect only a roof will deliver that.

<B>

pompadour · Nov 28, 2012

Etudiant, thanks. I keep finding the Soviets did and made many wonderful things the rest of the world didn't know about. Some may never be known.

In instances like this a few people knew even then, but it seems the awareness hasn't really spread, despite means today such as Bf. Till now, when non-bin-experts praised Russian bins I thought it was their ignorance not mine!

Brock, I thought "sharpness" means just resolution, i.e. that nearly everyone in Bf. uses the word to mean resoln. separable as far as poss. from those other parameters, and if separating is tricky they explicitly say so. If not it can make things pretty confusing! Thought "clarity" meant resoln. plus those other things.

Also, I wonder, what useful info. is obtained by testing the resoln. of a bin beyond what humans can see? I'm thinking, of course, also of this "geekery" by other experts than the 'Roller.

mooreorless · Nov 28, 2012

"But since I don't suffer from the dreaded Rolling Brock effect (thanks, Gijs, for this new term)"

I'm glad I didn't just take a drink of coffee.:-O Thanks!

henry link · Nov 28, 2012

It’s interesting to me to see a new cult of admirers apparently developing around the Swarovski Habicht Porros. From the mid 1980’s to the early 90’s I bought almost all the Swarovski Porro models, both the Habicht Traditionals (the ones now simply called Habicht) and the discontinued Habicht SL’s. They all cost about half as much then as the surviving models do now.

As far as I can tell the only changes in the last 25 years have been improvements to the AR coatings. The basic optical designs of the current Habichts were already decades old when I first encountered them in 1985. In fact, except for coatings they could have been made exactly as they are today as early as 1923, the year that their most “modern” design feature appeared, the 6 element Erfle eyepiece used in the 8x30 and 10x40. The 7x42 uses a Kellner eyepiece, which dates to the 1830’s. I don’t bring up the age of the designs to denigrate the Habichts, but just to point out that most of the basic design problems in Porro prism binoculars were solved almost 100 years ago. Axial resolution hasn’t improved since then and the off-axis corrections of a 6 element Erfle still look pretty good today, though well below state of the art.

I have enough personal quibbles with the Habichts to prevent me from being much interested in buying another one, even with the new coatings. For instance, the 12mm eye relief on the 8x30/10x40 models is so short that my eyelashes flick against the eye lens glass. Besides being unpleasant that also tends to foul the eye lens with eyelash oil after a few hours of use. The AFOV of the 7x42 (around 45º) is just too narrow for my taste and I find the small stiff eyecups on the unarmored models quite uncomfortable. Lastly, the baffling of the objective cell on the 8x30 is not as effective as I would like, though I learned to live with the occasional veiling glare that results. Quibbles aside, it’s amusing for an old-timer like me to see that these ancient binocular designs from the early 20th century, updated only with 21st century coatings, are still capable of seducing you young whippersnappers with their surprisingly good performance.

What binoculars do you think have the most WOW factor! (1 Viewer)

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