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Old Tuesday 7th January 2020, 10:28   #1
Calalp
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Birdquest E-newsletter

I got this e-mail today, that might be worth to read, for all "listers" ...

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BIRDQUEST E-NEWSLETTER 31

[...]

We have some urgent and important news for listers!

The question right now for HBW Alive users is how to keep all your bird lists after it is no longer 'alive'?

We have learnt that HBW Alive will transition in early 2020 to become Birds of the World and indeed its MyBirding platform is already no longer accepting new data. Premium HBW Alive users have the option of moving their MyBirding data to eBird, the citizen science platform of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.

My Birding uses BirdLife taxonomy and eBird uses the Clements taxonomy. Obviously, the major differences between HBW Alive and eBird taxonomy will have profound impact on lists, which can be significantly difficult to handle.

In addition, it is not possible to move to IOC World Bird List taxonomy, despite the fact that IOC taxonomy is becoming increasingly popular amongst world birders.

iGoTerra is another option for birders that would like to move from HBW Alive to IOC, or even Clements!

BirdQuest and iGoTerra have a long-term partner agreement, where iGoTerra provides all our trip checklists based on the latest IOC taxonomy. Our partner iGoTerra specializes in wildlife listing management and is widely used by top listers and bird tour operators around the world, as it offers both IOC and Clements taxonomies.

Besides keeping their bird observations, lists and photos on iGoTerra, most users also use it for keeping track of all the other species groups as well: mammals, dragonflies, butterflies, fish and plants etc.

For users of HBW Alive, iGoTerra provides a tool to help with recent splits and lumps, to facilitate migration of personal data, and thereby moving to either Clements or IOC taxonomy.

In iGoTerra, users decide what information they want to enter or display in public. They could very well just keep a list of ticks in the world, or may want to enter every possible details for the observations, or any possible combination. Users choice! They also decide if they want to appear in public Rankings, or if they prefer to remain anonymous. Any observation can also be public or private.

And it’s not a matter of choosing between list management and usefulness, between iGoTerra or eBird: any iGoTerra user can export the data deemed relevant to eBird to contribute to citizen science. So why not have the best of both worlds?

Time is critical though! HBW Alive will close their services in February 2020, and users need to extract their data before it closes…

We would like to wish you a Happy and bird filled 2020 whichever listing platform you choose to follow!

The Birdquest Team
Hopefully of some help/use?

Björn
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Old Tuesday 7th January 2020, 20:09   #2
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If HBW Alive will close in February does that mean that my subscription will expire in February too? (I've thought I've paid until July 2020). And another question: It was possible to pay via Paypal and in Euro at HBW Alive. But most American platforms only accept payment with credit cards and in Dollar. How they will manage the subscription and the payment for European customers?
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Old Tuesday 7th January 2020, 21:16   #3
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I think this thread belongs in the Computers, Birding Software And The Internet forum.

https://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=108
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Old Tuesday 7th January 2020, 22:16   #4
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Wonder who came up with a name like 'igoterra'?
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Old Tuesday 7th January 2020, 23:34   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
If HBW Alive will close in February does that mean that my subscription will expire in February too? (I've thought I've paid until July 2020). And another question: It was possible to pay via Paypal and in Euro at HBW Alive. But most American platforms only accept payment with credit cards and in Dollar. How they will manage the subscription and the payment for European customers?
Much more about the joint venture of HBW and Cornell in this thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=373811

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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 02:09   #6
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Wonder who came up with a name like 'igoterra'? Nutcracker.
Terra :
Noun,
earth; land. from Dictionary dot com.
Borrowed into English from Latin around 1605–15.
Ig. Immunoglobulin. Dictionary dot com.
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 02:52   #7
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///////My Birding uses BirdLife taxonomy and eBird uses the Clements taxonomy. Obviously, the major differences between HBW Alive and eBird taxonomy will have profound impact on lists, which can be significantly difficult to handle.


As I don't personally know anyone that has ever personally met anyone PERIOD... using or following HBW/ BirdLife taxonomy, I don't think any such change will have a *profound impact* at all. Moreover it just goes to show that HBW/ BirdLife doesn't know what to do next or where to turn to set a straight path after their inhouse *unpublished* shambolic taxonomic shuffles.
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 06:55   #8
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Moreover it just goes to show that HBW/ BirdLife doesn't know what to do next or where to turn to set a straight path after their inhouse *unpublished* shambolic taxonomic shuffles.
I assume you are mixing up Birdquest (a world birdtour company and the source of the e-newsletter) and Birdlife (a bird conservation organization) ???
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 09:17   #9
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Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Much more about the joint venture of HBW and Cornell in this thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=373811

Niels
HBW Alive state that it will manage the subscription until further notice. But what does that mean for the subscriptions if they will close their services? And what will happen to the domain HBW.com? There is still no information at Birdsoftheworld.org about payment methods etc.
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 10:50   #10
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Wonder who came up with a name like 'igoterra'?
It's a reminder. 'I got erra cos random people post records'.
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 00:27   #11
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Originally Posted by Peter Boesman View Post
I assume you are mixing up Birdquest (a world birdtour company and the source of the e-newsletter) and Birdlife (a bird conservation organization) ???

Your often enlightening work with HBW will undoubtedly pave the way for many future taxonomic changes, and I guess (sincerely hope!) that you are being justifiably rewarded for your good work.

What it comes down to though, is that the public is not buying the Tobias et al. 2010: 7 point rule. It just doesn't work for birds... you can't tick all the boxes and expect a uniform and representative taxonomy like that. I could go into much more detail but a lot has already been said elsewhere.

I have no idea why HBW Alive is folding, but I imagine there is a financial angle and Lynx is a company that needs to make a profit.

But hey....do we need to follow splits from a company (paired with BirdLife) that needs to make a profit.

No dude, what we need is a taxonomy that is approved by professional ornithologists in peer reviewed papers at the very least.

The AOU has the prerequisite of a panel of international scientists to vote on the legitimacy of these works (North America/ South America) for a final acceptance or rejection which takes taxonomy to another level really, and they do reject a lot of scientific work.

There is nothing like this in the Old World platform but hopefully... one day it will happen.

I don't get the vibe that anyone follows BirdLife taxonomy period: why would IgoTerra only offer Clements or IOC listing options... go figure.

I would say that both are bandwagons anyway but it is noteworthy that they do adhere to the scientific ground rules. Pseudo-science is not good enough I'm afraid.... I have spelt it out the hard way but I would be interested to hear opinions from others of course. IMO Birdlife has shot itself in the foot over this.

I think many feel the same way but are reluctant to say so.

We'll all still support BirdLife in one way or another over conservation of course, that goes without saying.


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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 10:14   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neomorphus View Post
Your often enlightening work with HBW will undoubtedly pave the way for many future taxonomic changes, and I guess (sincerely hope!) that you are being justifiably rewarded for your good work.

What it comes down to though, is that the public is not buying the Tobias et al. 2010: 7 point rule. It just doesn't work for birds... you can't tick all the boxes and expect a uniform and representative taxonomy like that. I could go into much more detail but a lot has already been said elsewhere.

I have no idea why HBW Alive is folding, but I imagine there is a financial angle and Lynx is a company that needs to make a profit.

But hey....do we need to follow splits from a company (paired with BirdLife) that needs to make a profit.

No dude, what we need is a taxonomy that is approved by professional ornithologists in peer reviewed papers at the very least.

The AOU has the prerequisite of a panel of international scientists to vote on the legitimacy of these works (North America/ South America) for a final acceptance or rejection which takes taxonomy to another level really, and they do reject a lot of scientific work.

There is nothing like this in the Old World platform but hopefully... one day it will happen.

I don't get the vibe that anyone follows BirdLife taxonomy period: why would IgoTerra only offer Clements or IOC listing options... go figure.

I would say that both are bandwagons anyway but it is noteworthy that they do adhere to the scientific ground rules. Pseudo-science is not good enough I'm afraid.... I have spelt it out the hard way but I would be interested to hear opinions from others of course. IMO Birdlife has shot itself in the foot over this.

I think many feel the same way but are reluctant to say so.

We'll all still support BirdLife in one way or another over conservation of course, that goes without saying.


Anon.
You don't have to read too many SACC proposals to see that taxonomic decisions are made in the most arbitrary way, and that they ultimately boil down to personal subjective opinion and taste rather than objective science. When two "international scientists" can be presented with the same data set and come to opposite conclusions, how can you argue with a straight face that this is science?

Even if there was an objective and uniform framework within which taxonomic decisions are made, which there isn't, the process of peer-review publication is piecemeal and slow. For all the valid criticisms of Birdlife / HBW, at least they have tried to construct an objective framework, and got on with the job of surveying the global avifauna and making decisions based on the available evidence. Let's not forget that >90% of the world's bird species were described from skins, and even paintings, without any vocal or molecular data.

Let's also not forget that many of the Birdlife splits are gradually being adopted by IOC. I take it as a given that the current Birdlife taxonomy will prove to be the closest to any settled position of any of the major listing bodies.
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 18:15   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neomorphus View Post

What it comes down to though, is that the public is not buying the Tobias et al. 2010: 7 point rule. It just doesn't work for birds... you can't tick all the boxes and expect a uniform and representative taxonomy like that. I could go into much more detail but a lot has already been said elsewhere.

I have no idea why HBW Alive is folding, but I imagine there is a financial angle and Lynx is a company that needs to make a profit.

But hey....do we need to follow splits from a company (paired with BirdLife) that needs to make a profit.

No dude, what we need is a taxonomy that is approved by professional ornithologists in peer reviewed papers at the very least.

I don't get the vibe that anyone follows BirdLife taxonomy period: why would IgoTerra only offer Clements or IOC listing options... go figure.

IMO Birdlife has shot itself in the foot over this.


I think many feel the same way but are reluctant to say so.


Anon.
Absolutely agree with this, as for the last highlighted part, I've said a few times that splits are getting accepted on the back of a forthcoming publication and have been accused of having a personal grudge!

The Scythebill programme only supports Clements and IOC too.
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