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HBW Alive transition

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Old Tuesday 7th January 2020, 10:38   #1
Calalp
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HBW Alive transition

See today's Birdquest E-newsletter 31, here:
Quote:
We have learnt that HBW Alive will transition in early 2020 to become Birds of the World and ...
James, how will this affect the dear HBW Alive Key ... ?!?

Any trouble in sight?

Björn
--

Last edited by Calalp : Wednesday 8th January 2020 at 06:13. Reason: Key in blue
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 03:18   #2
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Quote:
See today's Birdquest E-newsletter 31, here:
Quote:
We have learnt that HBW Alive will transition in early 2020 to become Birds of the World and ...
James, how will this affect the dear HBW Alive Key ... ?!?
https://birdsoftheworld.org/
10,721 species accounts
integrates content from several renowned ornithological resources, including Handbook of the Birds of the World Alive, ....
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 04:13   #3
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10721 is the August 2019 e-Bird number.
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Old Wednesday 8th January 2020, 06:37   #4
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Originally Posted by Calalp View Post
. . .James, how will this affect the dear HBW Alive Key ... ?!?
My question also. A wonderful resource which I consult regularly and would hate to see disappear as a stand-alone app. . ..
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 15:57   #5
l_raty
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https://birdsoftheworld.org/ is up now, with no sight of the Key on it so far. (And indeed quite minimal and hard-to-find nomenclatural info, overall.)
Meanwhile, https://www.hbw.com/ is still up too, but for how long ?
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 17:11   #6
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"Several key pieces of functionality will be implemented at a later date:

Ornithological Notes
Etymology of scientific bird names from James A. Jobling’s book, “Dictionary of scientific bird names”
Original HBW Family Accounts
Geographical Filters"

I guess, we'll just have to wait a while. Hope it's not going to be too long
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 17:20   #7
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I hope we could consult the description sheets of each species as we can do on HBW
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 18:21   #8
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Some split species, e.g. Otus cyprius, are not included.
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 21:28   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffong View Post
"Several key pieces of functionality will be implemented at a later date:

Ornithological Notes
Etymology of scientific bird names from James A. Jobling’s book, “Dictionary of scientific bird names”
Original HBW Family Accounts
Geographical Filters"

I guess, we'll just have to wait a while. Hope it's not going to be too long
Hopefully they will implement/use the Etymology of scientific bird names from Jobling’s (far more updated) HBW Alive Key (to Scientific Names in Ornithology), thus not the ditto/s from the book “Dictionary of scientific bird names” (Helm, 2010). Much have happened since, ...

We'll see. Fingers crossed.

Björn

/B
-

Last edited by Calalp : Wednesday 4th March 2020 at 21:32. Reason: typo
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Old Wednesday 4th March 2020, 22:28   #10
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Originally Posted by LeNomenclatoriste View Post
I hope we could consult the description sheets of each species as we can do on HBW
If you mean the 'Taxonomy' tab of hbw.com species pages (with alternative names and species/subspecies names listed with authorship and a concise range statement), there are currently no such 'sheets' in birdsoftheworld.org at all.
(In some of the species accounts that are in 'free preview', e.g., Cyanolanius madagascarinus or Opisthocomus hoazin, the authors of the names currently do not even seem to be cited anywhere in the accounts. In others they are cited, with a variable amount of associated info, in the Systematics / "Systematics history" page. But not in a concise, checklist-like way, as they were of hbw.com, and you need to pay to see this page for all the species.)

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Some split species, e.g. Otus cyprius, are not included.
This is Clements. (Among the 'big taxonomies', only IOC split Otus cyprius, I think.)
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 03:40   #11
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What a scam .. If a site offers a world birds list without the possibility of consulting each species description, such a site doesn't merit to exist

On top of that, they dare to put the bluethroat and the white-bellied redstart in genus Luscinia rather than Cyanecula and Hodgsonius respectively, it's a shame, a real taxonomic suicide

Last edited by LeNomenclatoriste : Thursday 5th March 2020 at 04:14.
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 05:22   #12
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I guess you can find your concise sheet about each species in ebird
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 05:49   #13
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I'm going to have to manually write all the synonyms of each genre before closing of hbw...

Which is the best site giving the geographical distributions?

Last edited by LeNomenclatoriste : Thursday 5th March 2020 at 05:55.
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 17:51   #14
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There is one question. There is still the possibility to subscribe at HBW Alive. So what will happen to the new subscription when HBW Alive will be closed? You need an extra subscription for Birds of the World after March 11, 2020 and the only payment method is via credt card. So Birds of the World will be nothing for me because I don't have a credit card and I will never have one.
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 20:22   #15
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This recent development is indeed very unfortunate. The free taxonomy information on HBW Alive is no longer free in the new project. Even for the paying customers, the pricing is much expensive now: $49 per year for the new project vs. $32.5 per year (+$22.5 one-time registration fee) for the HBW Alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
There is still the possibility to subscribe at HBW Alive.
And no, there is no possibility to subscribe to HBW Alive (I found the pricing I cited above in Google cache which will disappear soon).
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Old Thursday 5th March 2020, 21:28   #16
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Is there any way to work out the existing (while it still exists!) URL for any HBW Alive species entry? Then that could be entered in archive org's wayback machine to get archived copies:
http://wayback.archive.org/web/


Edit: doesn't work, unfortunately:
Quote:
Sorry.


This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine.

Last edited by Nutcracker : Thursday 5th March 2020 at 21:31.
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Old Friday 6th March 2020, 00:43   #17
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Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Is there any way to work out the existing (while it still exists!) URL for any HBW Alive species entry? Then that could be entered in archive org's wayback machine to get archived copies:
http://wayback.archive.org/web/


Edit: doesn't work, unfortunately:
You could try https://www.httrack.com/
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 22:13   #18
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I've tried HTTRACK for downloading the Jobling Key. Well, it worked to download the page, but it took very long, almost seven hours. But I don't know if HTTRACK works one hundred percent with the species entries, since they are all behind a paywall.
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Old Sunday 8th March 2020, 06:38   #19
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The original BNA website will be closed on March 30, 2020
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 06:16   #20
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I am not sure Cyanecula is a properly formed genus name?
The first user Brisson did not use it as a genus?
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/Genera/C/c01985a.jpg .
The next user cited it Cyanecula Briss. before the ruling only Brisson's genus names were OK.
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/Genera/C/c01986a.jpg .
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 09:40   #21
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The first user Brisson did not use it as a genus?
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/Genera/C/c01985a.jpg .
The next user cited it Cyanecula Briss. before the ruling only Brisson's genus names were OK.
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/Genera/C/c01986a.jpg .
This is a very common situation.
The first author who used the name as generic (or subgeneric), in a published work applying the principles of binominal nomenclature and in a way that fulfilled the current requirements for availability, made this name available. Brisson did not; but Brehm did (at least in 1831; the status of the names in his 1828-30 lists of German birds published in Isis is disputed, not because any name would be attributed to Brisson there, but because Brehm did not describe the birds or cite an authority for the included species-group names, which can thus all be deemed unidentifiable, potentially making all the new generic names introduced there, Cyanecula included, nomina nuda); by so doing he became the author of the name. It is irrelevant that he attributed the name to an earlier author who had failed to do it before him.

(I'm not sure this belongs in the present thread, though )

Last edited by l_raty : Wednesday 11th March 2020 at 10:41.
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 15:34   #22
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I am not sure Cyanecula is a properly formed genus name?
The first user Brisson did not use it as a genus?
...
Didn't he?

Brisson's "CYANECULA" ... and "CYANECULA GIBRALTARIENSIS"; here and here.

/B

(And I am pretty sure that this topic doesn't belong in this certain thread )
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 16:28   #23
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Brisson's "CYANECULA" ... and "CYANECULA GIBRALTARIENSIS"; here and here.
Brisson is not binominal at all.
"Cyanecula" in the first link is not a generic name, it's an unavailable one-word species name, proposed outside of the Linnaean system; "Cyanecula gibraltariensis" is the same name with a modifier, not a binomen.
These two species are both placed by Brisson in his genus #XL -- Genus Ficedulae / "Le genre du Becfigue", where "Ficedulae" is the genitive of Ficedula, which is another one-word species name -- in addition to being deemed available as a genus name from [here] (basically because the Commission once said that the "generic" names in the Latin pages of the table at the start of Volume I of Brisson's work had to be treated as available).
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 20:58   #24
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Brisson is not binominal at all.
...
Not at all?

Not even as in, for example, following Accipiter BRISSON 1760, the invalid "Accipiter maculatus" BRISSON 1760 (here + here)?

However, I´ll take your word for it. What do I know? Latin and the Code (clearly) isn't my game.

Sorry for the fuss.

Björn
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 05:55   #25
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Not at all?
This is a good question. I read similar like...

Quote:
Brisson is not binominal at all.
...in the past and was wondering why Brisson was considered for the nomenclature at all (even for genus)?
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