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Old Monday 3rd February 2020, 08:14   #851
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I think they are a smaller species of wader, rather than Oystercatchers, not only the profile but also the sheer numbers like in Dunlin, Plovers and the like on migration or wintering ground. Not superimposed from my perspective.
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Old Monday 3rd February 2020, 18:22   #852
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Watched the Top Gear episode featuring the RAF Lightning II F35b against a McClaren Speedtail around RAF Marham. Interesting content - also a nano second of a uniform very dark brown Common Buzzard showing noticable white wing patches as it took off, (resembled a Great Skua ). Had an F35b low over the house ( probably close to the 1000ft level ) yesterday afternoon, getting quite familiar with their sound nowadays especially on short bursts of reheat. Birds, fast jets and North Norfolk - bliss for an old boi.
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Old Monday 3rd February 2020, 19:10   #853
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Would I be right in thinking that after the retirement of Ark Royal, 111 Squadron also went to FG1, taking on the ex-RN aircraft,
Yes, John. Both Leuchars squadrons 43 & 111 operated the FG.1s side by side. Only when 228 OCU moved up to Leuchars did we get FGR.2s based at Leuchars. Although Leuchars is now an army base the runway is still active and most days there seems to be some military traffic at least passing though (a touch and go or two), though I did see 3 Typhoons go vertical in full burner on take-off from the base as I was birding in St Andrews on 22/1. Was great to see, and especially hear. Jet noise was never far away when I was growing up in Dundee, so apart from the odd biz-jet operating into/out of Dundee airport, jet noise isn't quite so prevalent these days, and is much missed.

Don't have much in the way of Leuchars Phantom photos stored electronically (but could possibly rustle up a few 43/111 (and 228OCU) pics, from the late 'grey' days of the Phantoms in Fife). Here's "Black Mike" though....
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Old Monday 3rd February 2020, 21:30   #854
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Yes, John. Both Leuchars squadrons 43 & 111 operated the FG.1s side by side. Only when 228 OCU moved up to Leuchars did we get FGR.2s based at Leuchars. Although Leuchars is now an army base the runway is still active and most days there seems to be some military traffic at least passing though (a touch and go or two), though I did see 3 Typhoons go vertical in full burner on take-off from the base as I was birding in St Andrews on 22/1. Was great to see, and especially hear. Jet noise was never far away when I was growing up in Dundee, so apart from the odd biz-jet operating into/out of Dundee airport, jet noise isn't quite so prevalent these days, and is much missed.

Don't have much in the way of Leuchars Phantom photos stored electronically (but could possibly rustle up a few 43/111 (and 228OCU) pics, from the late 'grey' days of the Phantoms in Fife). Here's "Black Mike" though....
Most of mine are wet film, too: we had some interesting trips including the one where 15% of the Tayside police were looking for us for 24 hours (we were blissfully ignorant of this till one found us....) I do have a slide/negative scanner, just haven't found the room or time to get it going yet. Thank you for the confirmation.

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Old Tuesday 4th February 2020, 08:48   #855
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New sub hunters due in Scotland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-51356381

This is what they're up against.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOfR_MFlO9A

I actually saw this Sub in St Petersburg a few years ago when it was docked for Navy Day.
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Old Wednesday 5th February 2020, 21:27   #856
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My father had a long aviation career, starting with his first flying lessons at age 15 in 1943. He retired in 1989 in the left seat of the 747.

In the photo, he's at the controls of a Staggerwing Beechcraft over the Bighorn River, Montana USA circa 1954...
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 06:54   #857
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Without being too techinical, what was the perceived advantage of the 'staggered' wing or was it dictated by the position of the cockpit?
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 16:57   #858
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Hi Andy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Without being too techinical, what was the perceived advantage of the 'staggered' wing or was it dictated by the position of the cockpit?
Staggered wings are normal biplane design practice, as it was found early on that they reduce drag caused by interference of the airstreams between upper and lower wing.

The "backward" stagger of the Staggerwing in my opinion aimed an giving thr pilot a better view up and ahead. Military biplanes usually had conventional stagger for better view to rhe rear, from where they might be attacked, but in civilian aviation, that was not a design concern :-)

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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 18:27   #859
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Hi Andy,



Staggered wings are normal biplane design practice, as it was found early on that they reduce drag caused by interference of the airstreams between upper and lower wing.

The "backward" stagger of the Staggerwing in my opinion aimed an giving thr pilot a better view up and ahead. Military biplanes usually had conventional stagger for better view to rhe rear, from where they might be attacked, but in civilian aviation, that was not a design concern :-)

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Henning
I see, thanks, I'd never noticed this 'stagger' before, always thought they were just one on top of the other.
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 20:47   #860
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The Beechcraft had more than the usual amount of stagger, and its primary role was enhanced cockpit visibility... it truly was the "corporate jet" of its era.
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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 20:51   #861
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The Beechcraft had more than the usual amount of stagger, and its primary role was enhanced cockpit visibility... it truly was the "corporate jet" of its era.
Its a very streamlined design (personally I think the tail design spoils the lines quite a bit, but the rest is fabulous) and gets a massive bang from the engine's buck as a result.

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Old Thursday 6th February 2020, 22:07   #862
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Originally Posted by Farnboro John View Post
Its a very streamlined design (personally I think the tail design spoils the lines quite a bit, but the rest is fabulous) and gets a massive bang from the engine's buck as a result.

John
The Staggerwing was a product of its era, and as a result hearkens back to an art-deco aesthetic. After all, it went into production in 1932! A pretty sophisticated design for its era. I like it for what it is. But yes, its big tail is not elegant. Still, it typically ranks in the top ten of all-time most beautiful aircraft polls, right up there with the Locheed Constellation.

Attached is a better view of the tail and "staggerwing" profile.
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 07:16   #863
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Originally Posted by Mac308 View Post
The Staggerwing was a product of its era, and as a result hearkens back to an art-deco aesthetic. After all, it went into production in 1932! A pretty sophisticated design for its era. I like it for what it is. But yes, its big tail is not elegant. Still, it typically ranks in the top ten of all-time most beautiful aircraft polls, right up there with the Locheed Constellation.

Attached is a better view of the tail and "staggerwing" profile.
Well, I've never bought into the Constellation adoration, either. It's not in the same league as Concorde, the Spitfire, Mosquito or DH Albatross - or for that matter the Beech Staggerwing. I've a real soft spot for the Dak if it comes to that: such an elegant wing, and a look of eagerness to get into the air.

I'm not trying to fill a top ten, but I can't believe I didn't mention Hawker Hunter....

John
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 07:53   #864
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When I was at a folk festival in South Australia in October, I spotted this biplane flying over. It was a bit too far for even my P900 zoom to pick up any detail.

Can someone explain (in simple terms please) why this system of wings was developed and are they still producing such planes?
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 08:02   #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delia todd View Post
When I was at a folk festival in South Australia in October, I spotted this biplane flying over. It was a bit too far for even my P900 zoom to pick up any detail.

Can someone explain (in simple terms please) why this system of wings was developed and are they still producing such planes?
Early biplane was to generate lift and get the required structural rigidity. Wingspan could be shorter.

I think they might still make the Pitt Special acrobatic plane new?
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Aerodynamics have now moved on - the blended wing is being seriously explored for commercial aircraft now.
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 09:09   #866
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Hi Delia,

Quote:
Originally Posted by delia todd View Post
When I was at a folk festival in South Australia in October, I spotted this biplane flying over. It was a bit too far for even my P900 zoom to pick up any detail.

Can someone explain (in simple terms please) why this system of wings was developed and are they still producing such planes?
To fly at low speeds, which the early aviation pioneers attempted, requires a lot of wing area, and it was easier to provide a large, mechanically stable wing by creating a box-like structure comprising of two wings stacked on top of each other, connected by sturdy struts, and securely braced by criss-crossed wires.

Early on in aviation, the pioneers were often bird watchers, and their design usually resembled birds, and accordingly were monoplanes. Otto Lilienthal actually wrote a book on "Bird Flight as the Foundation for Artificial Flight", giving the best account of flapping bird flight ever produced up to that date.

The Wright brothers invented the practical airplane in biplane form because it was sturdier that way, but monoplanes were quite common into WW1, when biplanes became the standard form for their greater rigidity. (Ironically, the most popular monoplane, the German "Dove", did not owe its elegant wing shape to any bird, but rather to the "gliding" seeds of Alsomitra marcocarpa.)

An important factor for the rise of the biplane layout was that the monoplanes of that era weren't really resembling birds much - their wings had to be braced by dozens of wires too, which created so much drag you were better off with a biplane.

Biplanes are still made today, or produced in kit form and assembled by their owners, but I think all of these are used purely for recreational or sporting purposes.

Regards,

Henning
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 09:18   #867
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Thank you so much, both Chosun and Henning for your detailed answer.

It really is so interesting, isn't it.
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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 10:12   #868
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Omg - don't get me started on aerodynamics Delia - we'll be here forever !

I was going to be a fighter jet pilot when I was younger - but chronic car sickness and short-sightedness needing coke bottle bottom glasses put paid to that ! ..... oh, that and being a peacenik too

Thanks for the extra info Henning - I used to love watching those early origin of flight documentarys where the flapping wing contraptions would shake themselves into a pile of junk !




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Old Friday 7th February 2020, 22:54   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnboro John View Post
Well, I've never bought into the Constellation adoration, either. It's not in the same league as Concorde, the Spitfire, Mosquito or DH Albatross - or for that matter the Beech Staggerwing. I've a real soft spot for the Dak if it comes to that: such an elegant wing, and a look of eagerness to get into the air.

I'm not trying to fill a top ten, but I can't believe I didn't mention Hawker Hunter....

John
I don't think there's one jet aircraft that belongs in the beautiful category... the Concorde inches close, but as my dad has always said, "real airplanes have propellers and chit sticking out all over them."

He flew all variations (I think 7) of the Connie...
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Old Saturday 8th February 2020, 04:51   #870
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I'm not trying to fill a top ten, .....
I've seen several top 10 or even top 25 lists poking around on the net, and I can't believe how many exclude the De Haviland DH88 Comet !

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I'm a bit streamlining and aerodynamics mad, so it was a machine that figured heavily in my youthful imagination ....

Other notable mentions were the Saab Draken
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F104 Starfighter
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F14 Tomcat
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SR71 Blackbird
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Old Saturday 8th February 2020, 20:20   #871
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I don't think there's one jet aircraft that belongs in the beautiful category... the Concorde inches close, but as my dad has always said, "real airplanes have propellers and chit sticking out all over them."

He flew all variations (I think 7) of the Connie...
Maybe not in the USA, which after all gave us the SLUF, BUFF, Rhino, Warthog and Aardvark

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Old Saturday 8th February 2020, 20:41   #872
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Dad snapped these pics of his Connie getting a bath... 1962 San Francisco.
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Old Sunday 9th February 2020, 07:39   #873
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Dad snapped these pics of his Connie getting a bath... 1962 San Francisco.
Class! I notice the one of the triple-tail has the ominous shape of a brand-new 707 in the background.

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Old Sunday 9th February 2020, 13:27   #874
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Exclamation P51 @ 555mph !!!

In the Revhead thread but some flyboyz might have missed it .....
Video of the hotrodded P51 Mustang "Voodoo" leading up to and at their piston powered propeller driven record attempt.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WDFpaE2IY

Also a fascinating article giving some details of exactly what it takes to get a 'warbird' based racer able to push 555mph in level flight. Engine control seems thoroughly agricultural !
https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-t...ane-180969509/





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Old Monday 10th February 2020, 16:12   #875
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Class! I notice the one of the triple-tail has the ominous shape of a brand-new 707 in the background.

John
Indeed, that was the year dad started flying the 707. He said it was a wrestling match to fly, and developed callouses handling the yoke over the years!
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