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Comparing the British list to other countries

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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 05:40   #26
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Some really interesting comments. Thanks guys.

I guess what Iím trying to say is, how big would my year list be (in the uk) if I didnít use any rare bird alerts. Simply using previously acquired knowledge and experience, I would have a good chance of finding ptarmigan, stone curlew, cirl bunting and other ďcommon birdsĒ. I guess also that in the course of the year I would probably stumble on a rarity or two while visiting sites. But would I get near my record of 276? Probably not. But I can easily check.

So there is the challenge. What is each countryís record year list without using any alerts? Would the uk beat the Czech Republic? I guess the uk lists would be much lower, but what about the South American ones? Is anyone prepared to take on that challenge themselves? Maybe next year.
I went through the Czech check list (pun intended) and judged all species from the 402 on it quickly. I have counted birds I consider "sure" to see without timely information - that's breeders, commonly wintering waterfowl and passage shorebirds common enough to be reasonable able to "sit them out" visiting a few prominent stops, I got 224. Then I got another 26 that you are quite likely to bump into if you invest a lot of time during passage/in winter, so a dedicated loner should get around 250 - if I tried this, I would probably get about 240 max, as I am too lazy to really get all of the "harder" 26. I guess the UK will still beet us, even if narrowly, mostly due the ocean giving an extra very different habitat - also the UK is bigger than it looks and that helps.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 05:50   #27
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I did say I would probably stumble on a couple of rarities, but I believe you know what I am trying to say.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 05:53   #28
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I went through the Czech check list (pun intended) and judged all species from the 402 on it quickly. I have counted birds I consider "sure" to see without timely information - that's breeders, commonly wintering waterfowl and passage shorebirds common enough to be reasonable able to "sit them out" visiting a few prominent stops, I got 224. Then I got another 26 that you are quite likely to bump into if you invest a lot of time during passage/in winter, so a dedicated loner should get around 250 - if I tried this, I would probably get about 240 max, as I am too lazy to really get all of the "harder" 26. I guess the UK will still beet us, even if narrowly, mostly due the ocean giving an extra very different habitat - also the UK is bigger than it looks and that helps.
Thank you Opisska, that is exactly the information I was interested in. I’ve done the same for my 1996 list. 37 were “alert” birds, but I guesstimate that I would have seen 8 of them anyway. I also think I missed out on 3 British birds that I would probably have made more of an effort to see, had that been my aim rather than all birds. So I reckon my list could been 276 - 37 + 8 + 3 = 250.

Looking at the British list itself there are 237 species listed as common. All of these are getable, with the exception of lady Amherst. Of the next 78 scarce, not many could be guaranteed but some you could make more likely by choice of trips. Cley/titchwell for waders, Scilly Pelagics, flamborough head, fair isle, so I think 250 is a decent shout.

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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 07:37   #29
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Thank you Opisska, that is exactly the information I was interested in. Iíve done the same for my 1996 list. 37 were ďalertĒ birds, but I guesstimate that I would have seen 8 of them anyway. I also think I missed out on 3 British birds that I would probably have made more of an effort to see, had that been my aim rather than all birds. So I reckon my list could been 276 - 37 + 8 + 3 = 250.

Looking at the British list itself there are 237 species listed as common. All of these are getable, with the exception of lady Amherst. Of the next 78 scarce, not many could be guaranteed but some you could make more likely by choice of trips. Cley/titchwell for waders, Scilly Pelagics, flamborough head, fair isle, so I think 250 is a decent shout.
Would you mind putting up the 78 you think couldn't be guaranteed so we can also take a view?

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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 07:46   #30
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Originally Posted by bonxie2003 View Post
Thank you Opisska, that is exactly the information I was interested in. Iíve done the same for my 1996 list. 37 were ďalertĒ birds, but I guesstimate that I would have seen 8 of them anyway. I also think I missed out on 3 British birds that I would probably have made more of an effort to see, had that been my aim rather than all birds. So I reckon my list could been 276 - 37 + 8 + 3 = 250.

Looking at the British list itself there are 237 species listed as common. All of these are getable, with the exception of lady Amherst. Of the next 78 scarce, not many could be guaranteed but some you could make more likely by choice of trips. Cley/titchwell for waders, Scilly Pelagics, flamborough head, fair isle, so I think 250 is a decent shout.
Many years ago, I got tired of twitching, when I realised I was spending a lot of my fairly limited free time driving long distances to look for a crowd of birders as opposed to actually birding. Subsequently I went off in the completely opposite direction, and tried to build a list without twitching as such.
It was good fun, and 250 was a realistic target which I eventually reached, based in Milton Keynes, and going to coastal locations mostly, plus scillies and shetland etc. It did get incredibly difficult shortly after 250, and I don't think I have got beyond 260 since, even though there are many scarce birds left for me to find. I had a top 30 list of most likely species i could "find", some appear quite easy but I've never had any success with, e.g. Roseate tern, Long Tailed Skua, Barred Warbler, Crane, RB Fly, so maybe 280 would be a more realistic target. 300 if you could put the hours in, in quality coastal locations I'm sure.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 07:48   #31
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Would you mind putting up the 78 you think couldn't be guaranteed so we can also take a view?

Cheers

John
American Wigeon
Green-winged Teal
Ferruginous Duck
Ring-necked Duck
Lesser Scaup
Surf Scoter
Quail
White-billed Diver
Wilsonís Petrel
Leachís Petrel
Scopoli's Shearwater
Coryís Shearwater
Sooty Shearwater
Great Shearwater
White Stork
Glossy Ibis
Spoonbill
Night-heron
Cattle Egret
Purple Heron
Great White Egret
Montaguís Harrier
Black Kite
Rough-legged Buzzard
Spotted Crake
American Golden Plover
Kentish Plover
Temminckís Stint
White-rumped Sandpiper
Buff-breasted Sandpiper
Pectoral Sandpiper
Red-necked Phalarope
Grey Phalarope
Sabineís Gull
Little Gull
Ring-billed Gull
Iceland Gull
White-winged Black Tern
Pomarine Skua
Long-tailed Skua
Little Auk
Alpine Swift
Bee-eater
Hoopoe
Wryneck
Red-footed Falcon
Great Grey Shrike
Woodchat Shrike
Waxwing
Penduline Tit
Short-toed Lark
Red-rumped Swallow
Yellow-browed Warbler
Pallasís Warbler
Raddeís Warbler
Dusky Warbler
Greenish Warbler
Blythís Reed Warbler
Marsh Warbler
Melodious Warbler
Icterine Warbler
Barred Warbler
Subalpine Warbler
Rose-coloured Starling
Bluethroat
Red-breasted Flycatcher
Siberian Stonechat
Citrine Wagtail
Richardís Pipit
Olive-backed Pipit
Common Rosefinch
Mealy Redpoll
Arctic Redpoll
Parrot Crossbill
Serin
Lapland Bunting
Ortolan Bunting
Little Bunting
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 07:55   #32
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Interesting how different we are, despite being so close, I counted 24 birds on that list that I can basically go and show you in the Czech Republic (while there are many, mostly seabirds and some transatlantic migrants, that are essentially impossible here).
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 08:20   #33
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I've found 26 of that list in UK, in ~15 years. The vast majority found within a couple of miles of the coast, and since moving to Hampshire, with trips further afield. Birding 2-3 days a month typically
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 08:41   #34
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Where we really suffer isn't birds but mammals. If only we could reintroduce what the landed gentry wiped out...
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 08:43   #35
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I've found 26 of that list in UK, in ~15 years. The vast majority found within a couple of miles of the coast, and since moving to Hampshire
Interestingly Iíve had ten (sort of) off that list from the house in 37 years.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 08:54   #36
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Originally Posted by bonxie2003 View Post
American Wigeon
Green-winged Teal
Ferruginous Duck
Ring-necked Duck
Lesser Scaup
Surf Scoter
Quail
White-billed Diver
Wilson’s Petrel
Leach’s Petrel
Scopoli's Shearwater
Cory’s Shearwater
Sooty Shearwater
Great Shearwater
White Stork
Glossy Ibis
Spoonbill
Night-heron
Cattle Egret
Purple Heron
Great White Egret
Montagu’s Harrier
Black Kite
Rough-legged Buzzard
Spotted Crake
American Golden Plover
Kentish Plover
Temminck’s Stint
White-rumped Sandpiper
Buff-breasted Sandpiper
Pectoral Sandpiper
Red-necked Phalarope
Grey Phalarope
Sabine’s Gull
Little Gull
Ring-billed Gull
Iceland Gull
White-winged Black Tern
Pomarine Skua
Long-tailed Skua
Little Auk
Alpine Swift
Bee-eater
Hoopoe
Wryneck
Red-footed Falcon
Great Grey Shrike
Woodchat Shrike
Waxwing
Penduline Tit
Short-toed Lark
Red-rumped Swallow
Yellow-browed Warbler
Pallas’s Warbler
Radde’s Warbler
Dusky Warbler
Greenish Warbler
Blyth’s Reed Warbler
Marsh Warbler
Melodious Warbler
Icterine Warbler
Barred Warbler
Subalpine Warbler
Rose-coloured Starling
Bluethroat
Red-breasted Flycatcher
Siberian Stonechat
Citrine Wagtail
Richard’s Pipit
Olive-backed Pipit
Common Rosefinch
Mealy Redpoll
Arctic Redpoll
Parrot Crossbill
Serin
Lapland Bunting
Ortolan Bunting
Little Bunting
If you put some work in on a year list, nearly all these would be available to twitch, you might struggle with some of those in bold.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:05   #37
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If you put some work in ona year list, nearly all these would be available to twitch, you might struggle with some of those in bold.
Little Auk is a lot easier than most of the ones you've not listed in bold! I guess the advantage of being close to the northeast coast . . .
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:10   #38
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Little Auk is a lot easier than most of the ones you've not listed in bold! I guess the advantage of being close to the northeast coast . . .
I thought it was dependent on having a good passage year?

I once had one in my pocket, picked it up off the beach at Filey during that massive passage in the 90's. It was being attacked by a Crow, that's how I noticed it, took it to RSPB Bempton Cliffs.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:17   #39
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If you put some work in on a year list, nearly all these would be available to twitch, you might struggle with some of those in bold.
Yes I agree, nearly all twitchable. But without alerts?
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:19   #40
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Yes I agree, nearly all twitchable. But without alerts?
Most of those birds are usually 'stayers' and would be mentioned on this site somewhere I guess?
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:23   #41
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Bonxie2003 - did you mean to put Scopoli's Shearwater? As far as I know there are very few confirmed records. I notice that Balearic Shearwater is missing, which would perhaps be an obvious species for your list, so maybe you confused the two.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:31   #42
bonxie2003
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Bonxie2003 - did you mean to put Scopoli's Shearwater? As far as I know there are very few confirmed records. I notice that Balearic Shearwater is missing, which would perhaps be an obvious species for your list, so maybe you confused the two.
Interestingly the BS is on the ďcommonĒ list. Iíll check the SS
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 09:57   #43
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American Wigeon Twitch
Green-winged Teal Twitch
Ferruginous Duck Twitch
Ring-necked Duck Twitch
Lesser Scaup Twitch
Surf Scoter Firth of Forth
Quail Tough one! (Easy to hear in traditional places)
White-billed Diver Portsoy
Wilsonís Petrel Pelagic
Leachís Petrel Wirral
Scopoli's Shearwater Rarity
Coryís Shearwater Cornwall
Sooty Shearwater Cornwall
Great Shearwater Cornwall
White Stork hard to avoid escapes/releases
Glossy Ibis Twitch
Spoonbill Poole Harbour/Pennington
Night-heron Twitch
Cattle Egret Warblington/Abbotsbury
Purple Heron Twitch
Great White Egret Dungeness/Somerset Levels
Montaguís Harrier Hard!
Black Kite Twitch
Rough-legged Buzzard Twitch
Spotted Crake Scilly
American Golden Plover Scilly/Shetland
Kentish Plover Twitch
Temminckís Stint East coast passage
White-rumped Sandpiper Twitch
Buff-breasted Sandpiper Scilly
Pectoral Sandpiper Autumn passage
Red-necked Phalarope Hebrides/Shetland
Grey Phalarope Cornwall/Scilly
Sabineís Gull Cornwall
Little Gull Hornsea Mere (by the thousand)
Ring-billed Gull Copperhouse Creek
Iceland Gull Northern harbours
White-winged Black Tern Twitch
Pomarine Skua Cornwall/Selsey/Splash Point/Dungeness
Long-tailed Skua Norfolk autumn
Little Auk Twitch
Alpine Swift Twitch
Bee-eater Twitch
Hoopoe Twitch
Wryneck Scilly
Red-footed Falcon Twitch
Great Grey Shrike Thursley/Frensham/Cannock (many traditional wintering sites)
Woodchat Shrike Twitch
Waxwing Twitch
Penduline Tit Twitch
Short-toed Lark Scilly
Red-rumped Swallow Twitch
Yellow-browed Warbler Scilly/Shetland/East Coast autumn
Pallasís Warbler Scilly/Shetland/East Coast autumn
Raddeís Warbler Twitch
Dusky Warbler Twitch
Greenish Warbler Twitch
Blythís Reed Warbler Shetland
Marsh Warbler Twitch
Melodious Warbler Portland August
Icterine Warbler Twitch
Barred Warbler Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Subalpine Warbler (which?)
Rose-coloured Starling Scilly
Bluethroat Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Red-breasted Flycatcher Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Siberian Stonechat Twitch (once DNA'd!)
Citrine Wagtail Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Richardís Pipit Scilly/East Coast autumn
Olive-backed Pipit Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Common Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Mealy Redpoll Check redpoll flocks
Arctic Redpoll Shetland
Parrot Crossbill Twitch
Serin Twitch
Lapland Bunting Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
Ortolan Bunting Twitch
Little Bunting Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn
The birds listed as "Shetland/Scilly/East Coast autumn" are not far off dead certs on a week/fortnight stay in the places listed from mid September to end October. I'm not saying you'd get all of them but e.g. a fortnight on Shetland would be likely to give you a good half-dozen, plus some rarities. You might have to at least engage with local birders a bit, I'm assuming you aren't a hermit.

In total you should get at least 30 of the above without huge difficulty by putting yourself in the right place during the right period. I'm amazed that Spoonbill and Great White Egret are even on this list.

In addition, there are some rarities that just turn up the same places beyond regularly. If you go to Topsham RSPB in winter (any winter) your chances of seeing a Long-billed Dowitcher are better than even.

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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 10:14   #44
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One species not on the list is King Eider. It's in theory a 'vagrant' but there have been at least one or two birds that have been reliably present at certain sites at certain times of the year for many years. If I go to the Ythan Estuary in April or May I would be surprised if there isn't one about there.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 10:23   #45
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When I started out on this, I wasn’t expecting my lists to be scrutinised too closely. I may need to update.

My British list stands at 441 (IOC), but I’m still missing quail (heard loads), Blyth’s RW, Melodious W (always seems to have seen half an hour ago!) and Sib St.

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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 10:32   #46
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I forgot that a lot of you don't count just sounds, that way the Czech number should be a bit smaller.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 10:41   #47
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When I started out on this, I wasnít expecting my lists to be scrutinised too closely. I may need to update.

My British list stands at 441 (IOC), but Iím still missing quail (heard loads), Blythís RW, Melodious W (always seems to have seen half an hour ago!) and Sib St.
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 11:06   #48
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When I started out on this, I wasnít expecting my lists to be scrutinised too closely. I may need to update.

My British list stands at 441 (IOC), but Iím still missing quail (heard loads), Blythís RW, Melodious W (always seems to have seen half an hour ago!) and Sib St.
Only trying to help.... there's a long-staying Sibechat at the moment that you could go and see - DNA tested and everything

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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 13:13   #49
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Bonxie2003 - did you mean to put Scopoli's Shearwater? As far as I know there are very few confirmed records. I notice that Balearic Shearwater is missing, which would perhaps be an obvious species for your list, so maybe you confused the two.
There is only one record of Scopoli's Shearwater ever. I need it as do all other twitchers and I've done the odd twitch over the years.

All the best
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Old Friday 21st February 2020, 13:23   #50
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This (the Brit scarcities concept) has come up before.

A starting point is the 250 or so regular UK species in eg the old Collins maps at back (a handful of which are hard), followed by the 70+ annual scarcities (probably a lot more now days).

It was said that anyone yearlisting really seriously in any one year would be unlikely to get all the scarcities, simply due to chance/poor years for certain species.
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